Hardware related error: Toe brakes not working

As this is a hardware related error which I only find mentioned in other threads, and as I have yet to see it acknowledged by the devs, I'm starting a new thread for this one.

I have Saitek Pro Flight pedals. The rudder axis works fine, but the toe brake axes are currently unusable. When assigned in the control panel, they usually only release to the mid-point - i e remain 50% "on" in the axis tuning (and in-game) when released. If I press and release them repeatedly and at varying rates, I can sometimes get them to unstick and release.

This is not the pedals acting up, as it can be verified in Windows and other games that they are indeed releasing fully. It is on both axes as well. Someone mentioned having the same pedals without this issue, but IIRC he had an older driver for the pedals. I'm using the latest driver, as of a few weeks ago at least, v6.2.2.0, with software version 6.0.6.5, as reported in the control panel game controller properties for the pedals.

No checking or unchecking of tickboxes in the control assignments (slider, invert etc) seems to affect the problem.

I've also seen this issue mentioned for other brands of pedals.

This has been consistent through B1/B2 and now in B3. It would be nice to have it acknowledged that the devs are aware of this and looking into it.

Cheers,

/Fred

Another reference to the same issue here.

I have the exact same problem with my Saitek pedals

just checked my setup:

driver = 6.2.2.0,

s/w = 6.6.0.38 (though shouldn't need the software if only using saitek rudders)

toe brakes applied together continuously bring aircraft to complete halt (at same rate as using W key on keyboard)

toe brakes applied together slow aircraft down, and if released before aircraft comes to a halt, the aircraft continues rolling/accelerating per throttle setting

toe brakes individually can steer aircraft and dont bring it to halt once released

as mentioned in another thread, setup:

If you release the toe brakes very roughly (i.e. let them slam up), then sometimes it doesn't go back to the 'off' position (to the right hand side as per pic). If you ride them smoothly, they go on and off perfectly.

Short version: it works as expected

If you release the toe brakes very roughly (i.e. let them slam up), then sometimes it doesn't go back to the 'off' position

Short version: it works as expected

Slight contradiction there, I'd say. :)

If the brakes on a real aircraft did not let go completely as you got off the brakes, regardless of how you released them, that aircraft would not go flying that day. Brakes sticking if you release them roughly is not 'working as expected'.

On my system, you have to nurse the toe brake off ever so gently to have any chance of it releasing. The practical implication is that the toe brakes are 100% useless.

Slight contradiction there, I'd say. :)

nope, they work as expected. As i expect. In game 100%

I dont jump on/off the pedals flying real aircraft and i treat the saiteks/flight sims with similar respect. Was only in the controller setup i saw the issue when flicking the top of the brakes with my big toes. :)

maybe my toebrakes are stiffer, i.e. dont travel as fast?

(Would have been nice for saitek to expose something to adjust tension for the toe brakes.)

maybe the driver cant handle them moving that fast and isnt raising (enough) events to consumers? And if DCS is relying on those events rather than checking absolute position every x milliseconds...

do other games handle your analog toe brake axis' ok?

do other games handle your analog toe brake axis' ok?

This is not the pedals acting up, as it can be verified in Windows and other games that they are indeed releasing fully.

While being harsh with any aircraft control is a bad idea, said control freezing up if you are harsh will never be acceptable. This happens way below the tap-dancing threshold for everyday use of aircraft brake pedals by the way.

I think we have established that there is a bug by now, verified by several people. You are seeing it yourself. You may not suffer from it in-game, but others do. Let us keep this thread for posting details of when-why-how and leave the non-discussion of whether there is a bug or not aside, OK? It will only muddy the waters for the developers who are (hopefully) trying to gain knowledge. Thank you for your input!

Mind creating a system restore point and installing the latest Saitek software? As you said, it shouldn't be the software, but it would be desirable to definitely exclude it from the list of possible culprits.

I have this same issue, and have even tried generating huge dead zones in an attempt to ensure there is no way that the brakes stay engaged. I think this is a DCS bug, b/c I can see in the RCtrl-Enter screen that the toe brake dead zones are ignored. No amount of dead zone modifies the brake response. If it did, I could alleviate the problem with a 50% deadzone.

This is quite annoying, and I'm guessing it's not limited to just Saitek pedals.

Same issue confirmed with Simped F-16 USB rudder pedals. Using R-Ctrl + Enter I can clearly see the brakes "sticking on" about 1/3 of the way up the triangle when the rudder pedal brakes are fully released.

A quick press of the W key resets the brakes to the fully off position as a work-round.

Can anyone from ED verify that this is a bug?

You can see the problem when you have the view control position Cntrl & enter open. The brakes are sometimes partially on without any input and you have to press w key to get them to release. I am using Saitek Pro Pedals.

I'm getting a similar problem with my SIMPEDS. Sometimes I can get three pulses out of them before they lock up, but they will lock up. Looks fine in Game Controller.

I can never get Rctrl + Enter to work. I'm running MFCD and Windowed mode. Could that explain it?

Problem still present in B4, as verified by myself and others.

my 5 cents:

Actually I do not have this issue with brakes lock. But brakes behaviour looks strange for me - the plane act like it's hitting the wall even if I barely touch the brakes.

I think it's really strange that even 5% of difference between left-n-right pedals force plane to turn so hard. It's about 50000lb's fully loaded, BTW.

Has there actually been an acknoledgement by ED that this is indeed a bug for all toe brakes?

Has there actually been an acknoledgement by ED that this is indeed a bug for all toe brakes?

Not what I've seen, and I've been keeping an eye on the issue in the forums.

I just wanted to add some input here...

I have a set of Saitek Pro Flight Pedals and just found the Rctrl-Enter key to show my inputs tonight :). I was having problems and I didnt have it inverted (for the toe brakes). I changed the settings to inverted and they seem to work fine.

What I want to add to the discussion is that the AXIS TUNE PANEL IS WRONG with respect to the settings that it shows in the graph and how it works in the sim. I think this is what may be causing people problems with their input controllers. (This is in Beta 4)

For my pedals if I invert the axis it works correctly. The deadzone setting does what it should, and the saturation curves do what it should....but the graph is wrong. People may be trying to adjust settings based on what that graph looks like but it is wrong. You need to take that graph and rotate it 180 degrees to show what is actually going on.

For example in my Beta 4.....If i set up my toe brakes like the what chokko has in the image above. THERE WOULD BE NO DEADZONE. toe brake, but instead my toe brake would give 100% braking at 85% of pedal travel. If I set the Y saturation slider to 50%, it would max out at 50% braking with the pedal all the way down. The sliders on the right are working as they should, the graph is 180 degrees off.

On the other hand, I messed around with the throttle axis adjustment and it is borked there also, but in a different way. For my Cougar Throttle, If I set the deadzone to say 50, I only get 50% travel in my throttle before I am at full power. If I set the Y axis saturation to 50%, with the throttle at the idle position, the plane engine power is at 50% and will not go any lower.

ED needs to check all of the axis tuning panels to make sure they are working right. There are definitely some bugs there that need to be quashed. For now, if you are having problems I suggest trying different settings in the tuning panel and then loading up a mission with the plane on the runway powered up hit rctrl+ enter and check to see if the settings you put in the tuning panel are working right.

I inverted the pedals on beta 1 and never looked back.

All I did, was to change the actual rudder curve, because i found it a bit too sensitive on default curve.

Sorry I haven't posted before...didn't think that, to invert them was a solution :(.

Also mine are brand new..maybe that makes a difference..donno.

If your brakes have the same axis as the pitch or roll-is that not a conflict? I use CH (no scripting enabled for DCS)

Firstly- in FC2 I needed to be in mapped mode (all 3 devices combined into "CM Device 1" in DCS) to assign the axis properly.

In DCS (mapped mode)-NONE of the 3 brake axis' would even respond to the actuation of the brakes. I had a progressive braking script that still seemed to kind of work... so I left it blank in DCS. Also- it seems I cannot double click the axis I want to assign and bring up the box either.

In direct mode- the 3 components are listed separately and will respond to pedal actuation- but like you- they respond with JOY_X & JOY_Y and in both cases it shows as a conflict right in the axis assignment box.

In short- can't assign CH pedals to L&R brakes at all...

Cancel that- It turns out that the primary problem came from combining my 3 devices into one in CHM. I am not aware of how to reverse this once done. It's definitely better to start a profile fresh, and not modify an existing one (from LOMAC as an example.)

I have the exact same problem with my Saitek pedals

Try reversing the Slider and invert the curve. Just select these two radio buttons and then make minor adjustments to the saturation axis depening on which toe brake.

Try reversing the Slider and invert the curve. Just select these two radio buttons and then make minor adjustments to the saturation axis depening on which toe brake.

Tried that. No go.

Please post your drivers and versions?

FWIW, I had some spare time. Virgin full install of beta 4 and it's still a no-go. The suggested work-arounds, i e axis tuning settings, also do not affect the issue.

FWIW, I had some spare time. Virgin full install of beta 4 and it's still a no-go. The suggested work-arounds, i e axis tuning settings, also do not affect the issue.

same experience on my machine. :(

Binding any other axis, it works fine. Pedal rudder axis - no problem! Warthog "friction slider" axis - no problem! Warthog throttle axes - no problem!

Even tried editing the relevant .lua files to replicate the entries from the WH axis settings, configured as toe brakes and working, in the Saitek file. No go. For some reason, the simulator seems to treat those axes on this specific device differently.

Cheers,

/Fred