Sierra99 Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 Just spent a bit of time trying to refuel and noticed a rather pesky issue with the KC-135 Speeds. As one closes to Pre-contact, the tanker is holding about 160KIAS... As soon the Boomer clears you to contact, the tanker speeds up to 180KIAS...(In real life wed slap the copilot...) Is this a known issue or new bug? Thanks Gadgets NKAWTG [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
PFunk1606688187 Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 160-180 is slower than any aircraft tanks at. I believe the C-130 is the slowest and it does it at 200. The A-10 at 220, and everyone else a whole lot faster. Problem with tankers as I understand it is that they're tied to groundspeed, not airspeed, so the wind will make him fly different airspeeds to match the given groundspeed. Its something we'd all love to see changed. Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
Sierra99 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Posted April 13, 2014 160-180 is slower than any aircraft tanks at. I believe the C-130 is the slowest and it does it at 200. The A-10 at 220, and everyone else a whole lot faster. http://www.foinikas.org/ftp/public/Falcon%20BMS/Docs/Operational%20Manuals/AIR-TO-AIR%20REFUELLING%20-%20ATP-56(B)%20(AJP%203.3.4.2).pdf ATP-56B is the Air Refueling Bible. 5-1 starts the specific info for each type of Receiver Problem with tankers as I understand it is that they're tied to groundspeed, not airspeed, so the wind will make him fly different airspeeds to match the given groundspeed. Its something we'd all love to see changed. That may be, But that is not what we are seeing tonight... Approaching Precontact, Tanker Airspeed is 160KIAS As soon as Cleared to Contact, Tanker Airspeed increases 20 Knots to 180 and stays there... it doesn't vary as one would expect if it were wind. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
Sierra99 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Posted April 13, 2014 *** CAUTION *** (KC-135) During AAR, do not allow the airspeed to decrease below 190 KIAS or .6 AOA, whichever is higher, due to decreased boom control at lower airspeeds. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
PFunk1606688187 Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) That may be, But that is not what we are seeing tonight... Approaching Precontact, Tanker Airspeed is 160KIAS As soon as Cleared to Contact, Tanker Airspeed increases 20 Knots to 180 and stays there... it doesn't vary as one would expect if it were wind. The other thing might be that the tanker has a different airspeed at the waypoint from the racetrack. When you program a tanker to fly a pattern you give it the pattern speed in the waypoint actions or whatever its called. You tell it to do a racetrack at a given altitude and a given speed, and this may vary from the speed thats given for the waypoints it flew up til that point. I have myself observed a tanker flying at a faster speed than it flies the orbit at until in the critical range where the boom lowers and the nav lights come on. This isn't necessarily at the pre-contact range as if you will see him change his behavior when you get closer regardless of the radio call. Once you're in this range it will be, as far as I can tell, flying the parameters in the tanker pattern instruction and this can be faster or slower than the waypoint's speed. Combine this with the groundspeed/wind variables and you get lots of reasons for the tanker to give you a hard time with respect to overall airspeed. In general tanking is screwy. Its rather unrefined as a whole and doesn't resemble real world behavior in many categories. I hope that as the F/A-18 gets closer to being a thing they'll look at tanking again. I'd say try calling for a rejoin but not calling "ready precontact". Instead fly to the left wing position and fly formation with him. See if he changes his speed as you get closer. Try it on various heading and speeds if you feel like it and then throw wind in for kicks. I going on a lot of supposition based on observed behavior. Edited April 13, 2014 by P*Funk Warning: Nothing I say is automatically correct, even if I think it is.
KaspeR32 Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 I actually made a post about this a while back. You are getting two different speeds because you have 2 different speeds set up in the Mission Editor. You need to set the same speed for the two waypoints for the racetrack orbit AND the orbit speed in the advanced waypoint set-up. Intel i5-2500k @ 4.4GHz w/ H70 liquid cooler, ASRock PRO3-M Z68 Mobo, 32G 1600Mhz Mushkin RAM, EVGA GTX970 4GB , OCZ Agility 3 128g SSD, SanDisk 240g SSD, Win7 64-bit --Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/livingfood --
GripenNG Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 A-10C shall refuel at 220 KIAS - the relation between GS and IAS depends on the altitude - and the optimum altitude is FL150. To calculate GS in relation to 220 IAS: (220 * 0,018 * 15) + 220 = GS 15 = depends on set altitude in thousands of feet Remember to set the GS and altitude in the orbit task in ME and refueling should be a lot easier. 2 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Snooze-81st-vFS
Sierra99 Posted April 15, 2014 Author Posted April 15, 2014 A-10C shall refuel at 220 KIAS - the relation between GS and IAS depends on the altitude - and the optimum altitude is FL150. I can tell you for fact, things get really exciting when your Airspeed falls below 220...The Boom just quits flying...And A-10s coming out of the Desert following a deployment were very Altitude / Airspeed sensitive due to the wear and tear on the engines. Flew an entire leg between Saudi Arabia and Moron Spain doing toboggans for every AR just to get the fuel off. I'll try adjusting the tanker info in the map. Thanks for the info! Sierra [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Primary Computer ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5. -={TAC}=-DCS Server Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.
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