N-001/0019 Usage

[Zychon]

Hello,

 

I've been away from flight sims for a long time, especially combat flight sims. I missed the Falcon 4 era, and the IL-2 era, and have "recently" gotten back to them since the release of Rise of Flight. I have since gotten into DCS:A-10C when that was released, and I'm broadening out from there with the rest of the DCS line, but I have not played a "modern" flight sim using a BVR system since Jane's US Navy Fighters back in '94-'95.

 

...to get to the point: My sensor management sucks. :thumbsup:

 

It seems the Mig-29 and the Su-27 and -33 are heavily dependent on AWACS. I have watched the F-15 tutorial vid for BVR, but I have not tried the F-15, so I can't really comment on any deficit. Detection seemed better in the F-15 video, though. The one thing I'm certain of is my lack of skill with radar in general.

 

I have trouble detecting contacts. I also lose contacts and cannot regain them, and lose them when going back to "return to search" from TWS or from lock.

 

I am familiar with all of the controls of the radar system and the HUD indications, but I am unclear as to the best way to employ them. For instance:

 

• Do you prefer to vertically slew the search unit angle manually, or input expected range and altitude?
  
• How forgiving is the range-altitude method? I suspect it depends on how far out your expected range is set and how far off the mark that is. In other words: Allowable error is a matter of azimuth and not distance. Still, with a target 50-60km out, if I have relative altitude set at 2km below me, will it pick up a contact co-altitude with me?
  
• In a flight of two or more, is it a good practice to use different PRF settings? Say -one on High for hot aspect targets and wingman on MED or interleaved for flanking aspect targets?
  
• How much time should I give the system to scan for contacts before I try a different range, alt, or PRF setting? If there is a contact, will it show almost immediately, or is there a long delay while the search unit sweeps?
  
• I started angling the search unit in the direction or my turns. For example, if I banked into a gradual left turn, I would angle my radar left to "look into" the turn. But then I suspected that I was angling the radar down into the ground because of the bank angle. Is this true?
  
• ...and other woes.
  

 

Are there any "best practices" for radar management? Someone suggested here that a good read was the Falcon manual which I plan to tackle next. Are there any other good sources? I realize that Russian combat systems employment is not something that is generally shared, but are there any generic documents that would help?

 

Thanks!

[Sceptre]

AWACS isn't essential but as you said, Russian planes rely on it more than the F-15C.

 

 

 

 

• Do you prefer to vertically slew the search unit angle manually, or input expected range and altitude? I prefer to slew it manually because you should have a rough idea of what altitude your enemy will be at.
  
• How forgiving is the range-altitude method? I suspect it depends on how far out your expected range is set and how far off the mark that is. In other words: Allowable error is a matter of azimuth and not distance. Still, with a target 50-60km out, if I have relative altitude set at 2km below me, will it pick up a contact co-altitude with me?Range-altitude works better with RU fighters AFAIK but I don't know too much about this one.
  
• In a flight of two or more, is it a good practice to use different PRF settings? Say -one on High for hot aspect targets and wingman on MED or interleaved for flanking aspect targets?Yes.
  
• How much time should I give the system to scan for contacts before I try a different range, alt, or PRF setting? If there is a contact, will it show almost immediately, or is there a long delay while the search unit sweeps?In the F-15C you can see the radar scanner moving left to right and it does 1 cycle in about a second. You said you don't fly the F-15C but I assume it would be roughly the same in RU fighters.
  
• I started angling the search unit in the direction or my turns. For example, if I banked into a gradual left turn, I would angle my radar left to "look into" the turn. But then I suspected that I was angling the radar down into the ground because of the bank angle. Is this true?I would really like to know this one too
  
• ...and other woes.
  

 

It helps to imagine something like this if you lose your target on radar. Memorise where the box was pointing and direct the aircraft or radar towards the last known location.

 

I'm not too good at air combat either but hit and run tactics seem to work best in the flanker. If you can get in a furball with an F-15 you are almost guaranteed to win because of the tools at your disposal in the RU fighters.

Another point to note is that if your target is jamming, they are broadcasting their position to everyone on the battlefield. If you lock them you can see where they are but not how far away.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Sceptre

[Oberst Zeisig]

AWACS isn't essential but as you said, Russian planes rely on it more than the F-15C.

 

 

It helps to imagine something like this if you lose your target on radar. Memorise where the box was pointing and direct the aircraft or radar towards the last known location.

 

I'm not too good at air combat either but hit and run tactics seem to work best in the flanker. If you can get in a furball with an F-15 you are almost guaranteed to win because of the tools at your disposal in the RU fighters.

Another point to note is that if your target is jamming, they are broadcasting their position to everyone on the battlefield. If you lock them you can see where they are but not how far away.

 

It would be ****ing cool to have this 30 deg 4 bar tws search pattern to our hands in DCS. It would be a much more comfortable search pattern when engaged. Unfortunatly it's a that simple radar model that you don't have the most features.

[Sceptre]

Yes it would because targets tend to move around a lot

[Robin_Hood]

To the OP, whose initial questions have not yet be thoroughly answered.

 

 

• 
  
• Do you prefer to vertically slew the search unit angle manually, or input expected range and altitude?
  

This will depend on whether you are searching for a specific contact whose BRAA you already know (Bearing, Range, Altitude, Aspect), in which case you are better off setting the range, elevation and PRF manually, or if you are just scanning the sky, in which case the best course of action IMO is to set a reasonable range (say, 30 to 60 km), and scan the elevation periodically.

 

Just to make sure you understand correctly how the settings work: the search range setting is exclusively used in conjunction with the elevation setting, to point the center of the radar beam (read: cone) to some position in space. You will nonetheless be able to see other contacts within the limits of the cone. Two important things to keep in mind are: 1. the cone is obviously smaller close to your aircraft, which explains why it is difficult to keep contacts on the radar when they get closer, and 2. a low range setting will make each elevation increment be big angle, while if you set a long range, elevation increments will only affect slightly the elevation. Hence, if you wish to drastically change the elevation, a lower setting is better, but it may also induce gaps in your search at long range.

 

 

• 
  
• In a flight of two or more, is it a good practice to use different PRF settings? Say -one on High for hot aspect targets and wingman on MED or interleaved for flanking aspect targets?
  

This may depend on your search plan. I would rather advise to split search responsabilities by altitude (high/low), or sector (left/right) than by PRF, but I suppose some specific situations might dictate otherwise. Personally I like High PRF, because it will detect threats from farther (assuming threats are coming towards you, which they usually have to, to be, well, threatening), but mixing some interleaved once in a while can be good practice (especially if you suspect that bandits might have got somewhat close to you).

 

 

• 
  
• How much time should I give the system to scan for contacts before I try a different range, alt, or PRF setting? If there is a contact, will it show almost immediately, or is there a long delay while the search unit sweeps?
  

I would say contacts may take 1-2 seconds to appear. The delay may be increased in TWS mode. As I mentionned earlier, a change in range setting will not do anything if your elevation is at 0.

 

 

• 
  
• I started angling the search unit in the direction or my turns. For example, if I banked into a gradual left turn, I would angle my radar left to "look into" the turn. But then I suspected that I was angling the radar down into the ground because of the bank angle. Is this true?
  

The radar is gyro-stabilised to the horizon, so what you do is usually good practice. The beam is not angled down into the ground.

 

I hope this helps a bit :book:

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Hello,

 

I've been away from flight sims for a long time, especially combat flight sims. I missed the Falcon 4 era, and the IL-2 era, and have "recently" gotten back to them since the release of Rise of Flight. I have since gotten into DCS:A-10C when that was released, and I'm broadening out from there with the rest of the DCS line, but I have not played a "modern" flight sim using a BVR system since Jane's US Navy Fighters back in '94-'95.

 

...to get to the point: My sensor management sucks. :thumbsup:

 

It seems the Mig-29 and the Su-27 and -33 are heavily dependent on AWACS. I have watched the F-15 tutorial vid for BVR, but I have not tried the F-15, so I can't really comment on any deficit. Detection seemed better in the F-15 video, though. The one thing I'm certain of is my lack of skill with radar in general.

 

I have trouble detecting contacts. I also lose contacts and cannot regain them, and lose them when going back to "return to search" from TWS or from lock.

 

I am familiar with all of the controls of the radar system and the HUD indications, but I am unclear as to the best way to employ them. For instance:

 

• Do you prefer to vertically slew the search unit angle manually, or input expected range and altitude?
  
• How forgiving is the range-altitude method? I suspect it depends on how far out your expected range is set and how far off the mark that is. In other words: Allowable error is a matter of azimuth and not distance. Still, with a target 50-60km out, if I have relative altitude set at 2km below me, will it pick up a contact co-altitude with me?
  
• In a flight of two or more, is it a good practice to use different PRF settings? Say -one on High for hot aspect targets and wingman on MED or interleaved for flanking aspect targets?
  
• How much time should I give the system to scan for contacts before I try a different range, alt, or PRF setting? If there is a contact, will it show almost immediately, or is there a long delay while the search unit sweeps?
  
• I started angling the search unit in the direction or my turns. For example, if I banked into a gradual left turn, I would angle my radar left to "look into" the turn. But then I suspected that I was angling the radar down into the ground because of the bank angle. Is this true?
  
• ...and other woes.
  

 

Are there any "best practices" for radar management? Someone suggested here that a good read was the Falcon manual which I plan to tackle next. Are there any other good sources? I realize that Russian combat systems employment is not something that is generally shared, but are there any generic documents that would help?

 

Thanks!

 

I'm no expert, (shocker) , but if you don't want to lose targets on your radar, you should always, when you first see them, switch to TWS and remember at what altitude they are flying. (it's shown on the aircraft icon as a number : 14 means 14.000 feet)

If you haven't locked him, just keep his altitude line in the middle of your highest and lowest scan altitude . (you know, on the far left side of your radar screen)

 

If he's starts going sideways from you , he's gonna disappear from your radar ("ze notch" as they call it) , but he must also be lower than you to disappear from the radar. So, if he starts to go sideways, remember the distance he's at (say 30 miles) go to STT wide search, put your upper limit at his altitude last known , (so lower search beam a little), and don't start to adjust your radar histerically but simply wait untill he re-appears. (this should happen when he points his nose back at you)

 

If you still haven't found him by the way you should be about 20 miles from here, it's time to start worrying :D

 

Then i usually just do the histerical scan thing i said you should NOT do, and if i can't find him again, run away.

 

 

Oh p.s : Also on the far left side of the radar screen is your scan blocks (that name is wrong but , it's a little arrow that goes past 4 line-thingies. It looks like : < When it passes all 4 settings, one sweep has completed.

 

I'm sure my advice is terrible, so don't take it untill it is scrutinezed by everybody -_-

 

And here's a video , i think it's one of the best tutorial, it has 2 parts i think about the F15 radar

 

fI-jVYH4sNc

Edited May 11, 2014 by Maximus_Lazarus

[Azrayen]

I'm no expert, (shocker) , but if you don't want to lose targets on your radar, you should always, when you first see them, switch to TWS and remember at what altitude they are flying. (it's shown on the aircraft icon as a number : 14 means 14.000 feet)

Ahem, Zychon was asking about russian radars (as per topic title), you answer with F-15C radar, that's confusing (and incorrect) :huh:

 

------

 

@ Zychon if you can read (or translate) french, a mate of mine did that a while ago, still interesting and (mostly) up to date: http://server.3rd-wing.net/public/92nd%20Kodiak Library/radar-russe.pdf

 

++

Az'

Edited May 11, 2014 by Azrayen

[Maximus_Lazarus]

uhm ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

crap :mad:

[*Rage*]

Nil points...

 

:)

[Zychon]

Ack. ...been off the forums for a while. Thanks for all of the replies!