How to effectively use countermeasures?

[Qosmius]

Hi, i searched the forums but i didnt find a post about this.

 

How do you effectively use countermeasures (chaff, flares,ecm,ir jammer)?

 

i know that chaff is for radar guided missiles and flares are for ir missiles.

 

but what is the best way to use them?

 

like whenever i see a ir missile is fired at me i just spam some flares, but is there a certain way to get them to be more effecive than spamming them wildly?

 

also how do you use chaff? im not sure when to deploy them when a missile is fired at me.

 

any advice is good advice, thanks :)

[Vedexent]

First - remember that countermeasures are an aid; they are not a magic "missile go away" cure.

 

I find that with flares the automatic countermeasure program is somewhat lacking.

 

Instead, I pop them off in tight little triplets of three; the flare button is right under my thumb on my HOTAS.

 

Also, try and think of what you and the flares look like from the missile's perspective. If the missile is behind you, and the flares pop upwards, and you're flying level, then the flares will just arc up, and fall behind you, which just makes you and your flares together a brighter IR target.

 

If - on the other hand, you're doing a high-G banking turn, or an Immelman, then you and your flares will be different (and hopefully confusing) bright spots in the sky.

 

You can also use the Sun to your advantage as well. If the Sun is somewhere next to you and behind you with regards to the missile this can - believe it or not - confuse the seeker.

 

Also - don't just use countermeasures when you see a missile; use them when you're vulnerable and you think it's possible there might be a missile: When doing an air to ground strike, I'm always jinking, maneuvering hard , and popping off chaff/flare triplets as soon as "dumb" or self-guiding weapons are free, and as soon as plane guided weapons impact. I'd rather waste countermeasures, than be unprepared for an infantry manpad.

 

Don't forget to use terrain masking. If you can steer a missile into a hill, or the side of a valley, do it. Diving behind hills, mountains, or into valleys can break radar locks, and line of sight to gunners to prevent new launches.

 

Take a friend - having someone observing the target zone while you do a ground strike, or scanning the region of space you're in, and calling out when there's an IR missile launch is invaluable.

 

Learn to defeat missiles, not just pump out flares. If you do a youtube search for "dcs missile avoidance" and "bms missile avoidance" you'll find a dozen examples.

 

And remember - even the best pilots get shot down by heavy SAM defenses.

 

Hope you find some of this helpful.

[ENO]

You can also use the Sun to your advantage as well. If the Sun is somewhere next to you and behind you with regards to the missile this can - believe it or not - confuse the seeker.

 

 

Thought that one was debunked in the sim? I'll have to find that thread since there was quite a discussion on it.

 

Speaking specifically about the A-10C here- I've been "antici-baiting" launches and while this doesn't always work for the IR threats- it can be a bit easier with some of the medium / short range radar threats like SA8s and Tungs.

 

If they've been tracking me for awhile I tend to put them on a front quarter and keep my throttles up and if I've got some room to drop then I'll even keep a slight nose down attitude- this just helps if I'm "baiting" the launch I want to keep some speed up. In the sim specifically, the AI tend to launch at max range- so keeping them on a quarter makes beaming the missile a much quicker affair.

 

You can't position yourself quite as advantageously with the IR threat since you don't really know where the missile system is- unless of course it's already launched on someone else. In this case while you're sweeping an area- you start up a bit higher (say... 13k) and fly through the area you want to clear with throttles forward (and ideally a wingie watching for launches). Do another pass at 12k, and another at 11k... or you and your wingie can trade to make it a bit faster. Anyway- at some point someone is going to launch on you- probably again at max range (AI only)... at which point you can flare like crazy, try to get an eye on the launch site or at least refer to your RWR (not necessarily in that order!)

 

In a high threat environment (read- I built the mission and I know there is an IR threat) I'll set up a manual program for 2-4 flares every .25 seconds for 20 cycles... As SOON as I hear that launch warning or get a launch warning from my wingie I'll hit my flares and let them do their thing, scan my RWR and orientate my out of cockpit view towards the launch site... I'll stop flares after about 6 cycles (like 1.5 seconds worth) while I'm trying to get my eyes on (this is just a "me" thing... I do it since while I'm turning aggressively the flare trails distract me from seeing the missile rocket motor).

 

If I can't see it right away I'll resume the program and try to keep speed up while putting the launch direction on the beam.... if I get my eyes on it I'll do a quick spot check on the canopy and evaluate whether or not the missile is tracking (after some practice to my surprise you can tell very quickly if the missile is "stuck" on you or not)... if it is then I'll initiate the program again and just let it run.

 

Keep in mind- I'm speaking simply from the sim side... I don't care how they do it in real life... though some of the concepts are a good starting point.

 

Also, in some MP side games you're seeing more people occupying the SAM / AAA threats- so you won't always be able to depend on the early launch...

 

But you're not getting paid more money to bring back chaff and flares. If you've been launched on... make sure you're dropping bundles and bundles! Set up your programs and if you don't know how- ask! We'll show you the way, or just look in the manual depending on what platform you're using. you want to use lots- but you need to balance that with longevity on station... Hopefully your briefing describes the resident / expected threats... if it's more IR then load up with more flares etc.

 

Proactive flaring / chaffing hasn't been proven to work in the sim- so while not a bad habit to get into I'm pretty sure it's placebo. ECM... again- not really accurately modelled... I haven't hung a jamming pod in a year.

 

Anyway! I'm a bit excited about the question since I'm finally starting to get reasonably good at evasion with the A-10C. Hope this isn't too much!

[muamshai]

The way that works for me is to decrease the thrust to minimum during ground attack and pop flares. Then full throttle and bug out of the hot zone.

Obviously I am talking about Su-25/T.

[Scarecrow]

This tutorial whilst tailored to the A10c CMS is relevant to any aircraft.:)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=125061

[Fri13]

 

like whenever i see a ir missile is fired at me i just spam some flares, but is there a certain way to get them to be more effecive than spamming them wildly?

 

When I fly Su-25T and IR-missile is fired toward me (Of course I am flying directly toward SAM!) all what I do is first pull throttle back to minimize my heat (check your temperatures and see the difference) and then pop few flares to different directions and last one directly up and then I boldly fly in SAM NEZ and destroy top 3-4 targets from there before turning away.

 

If then required I keep on eye the SAM area about incoming missiles and fool them with engine heat with flares by changing it and/or changing direction radically.

 

For me it is 99% proof to avoid any SAM/SPAAG from hitting me when flying around heavy SAM zones.

 

But I don't even dare to fly close T-90 or other MBT as their 12.7 HMG will rip me a parts in one or two hits and they are more accurate than any SPAAG, what makes them silly as they are more effective in AA than AA units itself :mad:

 

For radar missiles I only try to get them to consume their energy and get them behind me so chaffs would give some benefit while flying to cover of terrain or ground clutter.

 

But I have found radar missiles to be much harder to deal as I can't go head-on with them like I can with IR-missiles.

 

And missiles what I hate most are ATGM what soviet/russian ground units fire when I am flying helicopter. As when I see laser warning I know I need to locate the missile direction and simply maneuver around it if there is no building or terrain thats behind I can get in couple seconds. As trees just doesn't offer any cover against lasers or missiles, why I am waiting the updated game engine.