ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 ED Team Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Allies use 100 octane. Germans use B4. That is what is currently planned/used in DCS World for the WWII birds. No info on the possibility of switching fuels in the future at this time. Edited July 22, 2014 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
SlipBall Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 It seems odd to me that you would lock the other K4 thread, care to explain yourself :smilewink:
ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 22, 2014 It seems odd to me that you would lock the other K4 thread, care to explain yourself :smilewink: Yeah.. its was a mess of arguments about this that and everything... and then it started to be arguing about the arguing.... so lets not turn this thread into arguing about the locking of the arguing of the arguments... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
USARStarkey Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 sith were you able to find out how the MW50 is handled? I was curious if it can be regulated: Ie, can you control whether or not the plane has MW50 and regular gas separately, or does it just add as a function of total fuel weight. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Weed Be gone Needed
ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 22, 2014 I am working on it ;) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
USARStarkey Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I know, not trying to pester, Just asking since you mentions the fuel I though maybe you'd found something. :) Thanks! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Weed Be gone Needed
MiloMorai Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Allies use 100 octane. Germans use B4. That is what is currently planned/used in DCS World for the WWII birds. No info on the possibility of switching fuels in the future at this time. Shouldn't that be 100/130 fuel?
ED Team NineLine Posted July 22, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I just report what I am told :) (but probably) Edited July 22, 2014 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Random Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Someone is going to be unhappy about that but it seems fair to me.
Kurfürst Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 It's a good choice IMO, everybody simply gets the 2nd half of 1944 stuff, not the my-late-war-plane-is-überst stuff. Gonna freak some people out, though. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
Friedrich-4B Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Allies use 100 octane. Germans use B4. That is what is currently planned/used in DCS World for the WWII birds. No info on the possibility of switching fuels in the future at this time. That's good to know; what's important is consistency, rather than having one set of aircraft using super fuels while their foes are stuck with the ordinary grade. :thumbup: Water injection P-47D-30? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]************************************* Fortunately, Mk IX is slightly stable, anyway, the required stick travel is not high... but nothing extraordinary. Very pleasant to fly, very controllable, predictable and steady. We never refuse to correct something that was found outside ED if it is really proven...But we never will follow some "experts" who think that only they are the greatest aerodynamic guru with a secret knowledge. :smartass: WWII AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE
ED Team NineLine Posted July 23, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 23, 2014 Water injection P-47D-30? If that is standard on that aircraft, I would imagine so, but I havent heard yet. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 All early Thunderbolts used the R-2800-21 engine. Water injection capability was added to this engine beginning with the D-4-RA and D-5-RE production blocks. Provision was made for the mounting of 15-gallon tank carrying a water-alcohol mixture to the bulkhead just aft of the engine. A line from this tank was plumbed directly into the fuel intake. When injected into the combustion chamber, the water checked a dangerous rise in cylinder head temperature while manifold pressure was boosted. For brief instants, a 15-percent increase in engine power could be obtained, giving a maximum war emergency power of 2300 hp. In the D-5-RE, D-6-RE, and D-10-RE (D-4-RA, production blocks, the pilot manually controlled the water flow of the injector, but the injection procedure was automatically- controlled on the D-11-RE (D-11-RA) and subsequent blocks. This happened when the throttle was pushed forward into its last half-inch of travel. When installed at the factory, the water-injected engines were designated R-2800-63. The R-2800-63 engine began to appear on the Farmingdale and Evansville production lines with blocks D-10-RE and D-11-RA respectively. Kits were also made available for the retro- fitting of water injection capability to earlier P-47Cs and Ds. Since they were already built to accommodate water-injection, the D-4, -5, and -6 could be quickly modified, but the D-1, -2, and -3 and the earlier C-2 and C-5 each required about 200 hours of work for each addition of water-injection capability. http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p47_4.html
tempestglen Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Fuel is a kind of weapon. Why German had no P51? A-bomb? Panic? B4 is 87#, C3 was almost near to 100/130 especially in late period, ie C3=97/127, sth. like that. Anyway, before 1944, C3 was no use for Bf109s because of other engine limits. 1944 Spiring, B4+MW50=100/130 and C3+MW50=115/150 fuel. In WWII, Germans fuel could satisfy their engines without problems. German aircrafts could NOT gain perormance enhencement with allied 100 or 150 fuel. BTW, USA (Standard Oil company)already provided the lead tetraethyl technology(know how) to 3rd Reich before WWII, and German chemical industry had no difficulty producing high grade fuel. Don't play "fuel" cards. LOL Edited July 24, 2014 by tempestglen
JtD Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 You develop engines for the fuel available. DB605 existed in C3 and B4 variants since its beginning. Had there been C3 in unlimited quantities, the DB605 would have made good use of it. However, as opposed to the BMW801, it did manage to get good performance from lower quality fuel as well, which is why it was deemed acceptable to keep using B4 with it. 1
MiloMorai Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Anyway, before 1944, C3 was no use for Bf109s because of other engine limits. Some Bf109E and Bf110s used C3 late in the BoB. The Bf109F-1, 2 used C3. Edited July 24, 2014 by MiloMorai typo error
tempestglen Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 You develop engines for the fuel available. DB605 existed in C3 and B4 variants since its beginning. Had there been C3 in unlimited quantities, the DB605 would have made good use of it. However, as opposed to the BMW801, it did manage to get good performance from lower quality fuel as well, which is why it was deemed acceptable to keep using B4 with it. In 1942-1943, the heat dissipation and spark plug issues were the main reasons why DB506 could NOT reach high boost, not fuel. C3 was there. 1
JtD Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 It was a problem for the engines used with B4 fuel, yes. I'm not aware that the C3 engines could not reach their higher performance when using the same boost as the B4 engines.
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Avgas octane / performance rating was generally not an issue for German/French/Russian engines since they had generous swept volumes and compression ratios, and could achieve high outputs at lower boosts and/or extreme supercharging, therefore not really require fuels with high performance rating. The 87 octane B-4 in itself was enough for about 1,5 ata, or perhaps even more when used with lower compression ratios. Its also not a coincidence that that while C-3 had excellent rich performance rating of around 140-150, the chemist were satisfied with a 96 octane lean performance rating. http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 25, 2014 Just as a side note, I have asked the devs by way of feature request to look at fuel resources, including things like the MW50. They plan on looking at it down the road for sure. What that means and what we get I do not know for sure right now, but my hope is that multiple fuel types for these aircraft as well as the ability to unload or restrict the amounts of resources such as MW50 mixture. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Kurfürst Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Cool! Will be there option perhaps on D-9/K-4 to use the MW 50 tank as fuel tank (as they had this option for range increase)? http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 25, 2014 Cool! Will be there option perhaps on D-9/K-4 to use the MW 50 tank as fuel tank (as they had this option for range increase)? Its too early to tell, but that would be a cool option, I hope when they get closer to looking at it, they can look at all options. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
MiloMorai Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Some reading for you Sith, http://www.wwiiarchives.net/servlet/action/document/page/149/83/0 Is the manufacturing quality, or the lack there of, for German a/c going to be modeled?
ED Team NineLine Posted July 25, 2014 Author ED Team Posted July 25, 2014 Some reading for you Sith, http://www.wwiiarchives.net/servlet/action/document/page/149/83/0 Is the manufacturing quality, or the lack there of, for German a/c going to be modeled? I am not sure this is something you could really implement easily... I am not sure it was always lack of quality as much as other aspects, such as forced labour sabotage, lack of resources, etc... if they have good data on failures, that could be modelled. I will read your link later :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug**
Pandacat Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Or we can probably do something to the campaign instead of each individual plane modules. For instance, the war progresses based on some victory points mechanism which in turn depends on the player(s) acutal performance in game. If Germans could achieve certain level of victory points (i.e. the war progression in their favor) then they can get higher quality fuel or less failure rate etc. Higher performance by better quality of fuel or less failure rate should be modeled in each module, but make it something not available immediately, but rather something you have to earn along the way. However, for this kinda thing to work, you probably need a Dynamic Campaign generator. However, to have dynamic campaign will be a big hurdle for ED or DCS. Just some thoughts.
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