Hawg11 Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 :Originally Posted by GrilLookingAtHawg Oooou, Haaawg, how I looove your biiiiiiiiiiig...... smilies??? G1. hehhehe. On a serious note. "Lose sight, lose the fight" applies to SAM's, as well. The pilot's account illustrates that he hadn't taken his eyes off the SAM's throughout the engagement. Things may have turned out differently if he had. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean
Hawg11 Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 ...you can't teach somebody to be an excellent pilot ...They'll be good enough, but they won't be as good as others That's absoloutely right. When I was working A-10's, we had this one pilot who always brought his plane back code 3 for something. Even other pilots said he was a lousy stick. Maintenance flat-out hated him. However, this pilot's mission effectiveness rate was still within standards. Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean
RvETito Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 That's absoloutely right. When I was working A-10's, we had this one pilot who always brought his plane back code 3 for something. Even other pilots said he was a lousy stick. Maintenance flat-out hated him. However, this pilot's mission effectiveness rate was still within standards. Sounds painful familiar..... Sometimes I really hate these guys. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
bflagg Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 He He bflagg if only i could reach it !! Exactly the same as me matey feel that i HAVE HIT A BRICK WALL and need some guidance on how to advance. Should be getting some useful info of rastus. will keep u informed Cheers SumoScouse Out :cool: I was a drummer for years.. my old kit was a silver slingerland with blue cad-cam oil skins and some roto toms (remember them?) .. man it was pretty.... I was doing neil peart/bonham stuff near perfect, then the grunge shit came out... stone temple pilots got famous and just about every lead guitarist I meet then thought it was "stoned" temple pilots. I gave up in frustration and picked up the accoustic instead.... Wow.. I just realized.. that was 10 years ago.....and now the only thing I know now on guitar is G, C, D, Am, F.... Guess I have to go country and learn that 'twang accent..... Thanks, Brett
Rhen Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Sounds painful familiar..... Sometimes I really hate these guys. Hehe, that's the thing about maintainers (&prolly Hawg, too ;) ). Pilots want to fly the aircraft, & maintainers... well, if they had their way, they'd be sitting nice & pretty on the ramp & if we pilots would just keep our hands off them, they'd all stay code 1. BUT! Any OG/CC knows (he's a pilot, so he'd be biased anyway) that if you fly the jets, they get the bugs worked out of them and will have a better operational rate - (barring the rotten desert conditions - sand, espcially).
Rhen Posted March 23, 2006 Posted March 23, 2006 Emergency procedures and systems management are often trained for in simulators, since it is too risky and too expensive to do IRL when you don't have to. This would include dropping your tanks for emergency evasion. Now...I know some will disagree with this, but, you can't teach somebody to be an excellent pilot. You can teach the same group of people all the same things and some will never be all that great. They'll be good enough, but they won't be as good as others. How they react under pressure will separate the men from the boys. When the training stops and the fighting begins, you still fly like it's training - at least at first. Then you get used to ACTUALLY dropping your bags & doing the other things that are required in a tactical environment. I don't know how many times this was repeated in combat - but in the first few days of any combat action it takes a little bit for everyone to settle down and think about the fact that there's really a good chance that you could be shot down or hit the ground while maneuvering, or that you might actually have to practice the "last ditch" missile defense against a SAM or A-A missile (let's not even talk about MANPADS). The first few days of combat actions, the maintainers in the F-15 community just plain KNOW, the pilots are going to bring back over-g'd jets. We're going to react - quite violently - to missiles shot at us and because we have no G-limiter, we're going to maneuver hard (sometimes too hard for Betty, but the jet can handle it - thanks to the maintainers). It sucks for the maintainers because they've got a whole lot of inspecting to do on that jet, it sucks for us, because it takes a jet off the flight line, but by God, am I happy to be back alive! We all react differently under stress, but because of the training I received in the fear, sarcasm, and ridicule school of fighterpilot training, I'm more worried about fooking up, than getting killed (more or less ;) ). That single engine puke lived through the experience and had a tale to tell at the bar. That's good enough for me. I'd rather have that - not punching off my tanks, and having to use burner to get back up to speed (especially out of the AAA envelope - BIG DEAL!), than cause something stupid to happen to my wingmen because of my buffoonery. You live and learn - if you think fighter pilots are perfect, THANKS! You've bought into our hype! ;)
Guest IguanaKing Posted March 24, 2006 Posted March 24, 2006 No hype here. :D Actually, what I meant about how a pilot reacts under pressure is just when things are suddenly not like a normal, everyday flight. Sorry, I didn't mean to apply that to combat. :redface: Like you said, you can train and train in simulators and mock engagements, but none of that ever prepares you for the real thing. The thought of maybe not going home after a mission adds a whole new level of pucker factor, as well as knowing that people ARE actually trying to kill you this time around. Nobody's perfect, but what I meant to say is that, even after the careful screening of pilots...there are just some who don't belong in the cockpit. The FAAs been trying for years to figure out a model to go by for determining who should fly and who shouldn't. They still haven't found it yet. ;)
Hawg11 Posted March 24, 2006 Posted March 24, 2006 BUT! Any OG/CC knows (he's a pilot, so he'd be biased anyway) that if you fly the jets, they get the bugs worked out of them and will have a better operational rate. Hi Rhen, Any maintainer worth his salt will agree; he'll/she'll want the planes to fly. If the planes sit too long, they bug up. We hated to lose our birds to depot because of this. But, it's true that some pilots have a tendancy to break the plane. I scheduled maintenance for 8 years, and worked debrief for 6. What kinda bird ya fly IRL? Are you still flying F-15's? In the 15, does the "emerg jett" button dump everything loaded to the jet, or just bags? Dave "Hawg11" St. Jean
Andrew_McP Posted March 24, 2006 Posted March 24, 2006 I think i remember reading somewhere that you can stand an F-15 on its tail off the deck and climb to FL310 without breaking a sweat. Try to do that in LOMAC at any weight. The wings on an F-15 arent made for lift, they are made for stabilization. Like a rocket. Hence the virtually 1:1 power to weight ratio. In the following newsgroup thread about the Janes F-15 sim you will see this debate is as old as the simulated hills. :-) There are some knowledgeable names in the discussion. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim/browse_frm/thread/b57932620167c851/9ef19dca61ae5d39?lnk=st&q=f-15+vertical+acceleration&rnum=3#9ef19dca61ae5d39 Andy Hollis: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,979/ CJMartin: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,21026/ And the following general search will reveal a whole heap of discussion (some relevent, some not) on the subject. http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-10,GGLD:en&q=f-15%20vertical%20acceleration&sa=N&tab=wg Andrew McP PS While I'm writing, it's always nice to see real pilots and support staff (and there seem to be several in this thread) adding their experience to the forum. In many ways sim flying has very little to do with the real thing, and in order to make a sim immersive for folk sat in front of a monitor, often devs have to do things which aren't very realistic. So it's always nice to be reminded what things are like out there in the real world.
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