Clarification would be nice regarding SPS-141-100

[TwojaStara]

Hi,

 

first, enormous Thank You for bringing this module to the masses. Honeslty I'm going to buy anything from you guys that's from Cold War and newer, it's hard these days to find such quality products. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll bring us some variant of Mig-23, too ;)

 

Main matter: I realize that ECM simulation is not the priority in DCS and in -21 (and bringing it to reality might not be the most critical thing ;)), but still I have certain questions regarding SPS-141-100/-Je usage.

 

1) is SPS/ECM, planned to be somehow improved in long term?

2) is the bug of not working "painted by radar" light on SPS panel, known? # even with SPO-10 going nuts

3) could we get better understanding what is the program I/II setting? (I've tried to research this, but the best hits are for SPS-141-M/MVG - for formation flying, etc)

4) are really Continues/Impulse/Doppler/etc settings radars implemented in DCS? if yes, is jamming of those implemented via SPS pod?

5) how accurate are the radar frequencies implemented in DCS?

6) should i be able to jam using SPS-141-100 Hawk MIM-23B that is present in game? (my tests on 1.2.10 show that it is impossible, but this pod was exactly developed against early Hawks)? How about SA-3 Low blow? I've looked up that MPQ-46/HPIR is working somewhere 8-12GHz and SPS-141-100 should be able to jam 8.82-10.71GH (exact Hawk freq? -- according to Jane's)

7) how about jamming other AI planes?

8 ) how about jamming other human players? on polish forum where we tried to nail down the problem, 1 person reported that SPS-141 is able to jam FC3 Mig-29 radar but not the F-15

9) jamming... what effective ranges should we expect for the above?

 

I'm wanted to write in Bug section, because honeslty i believe that it should work somehow against even SA-3/HAWK that is present in game. I've done tenths of flight in single player to test it... all for nothing. Manual is a little bit silent on topic, and I just don't know if a) I'm doing something wrong b) unlikley but old SPS-141-Je is still classified? c) ECM in DCS is really oversimplified? d) I'm expecting too much - but you shouldn't be suprised;)

 

BTW: Apparently i'm not alone and there is a lot of doubt regarding SPS, see this:

 

• http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=131879
  
• http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132212
  

Edited November 17, 2014 by TwojaStara

[FSKRipper]

Hi,

 

first, enormous Thank You for bringing this module to the masses. Honeslty I'm going to buy anything from you guys that's from Cold War and newer, it's hard these days to find such quality products. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you'll bring us some variant of Mig-23, too ;)

 

Main matter: I realize that ECM simulation is not the priority in DCS and in -21 (and bringing it to reality might not be the most critical thing ;)), but still I have certain questions regarding SPS-141-100/-Je usage.

 

1) is SPS/ECM, planned to be somehow improved in long term?

2) is the bug of not working "painted by radar" light on SPS panel, known? # even with SPO-10 going nuts

3) could we get better understanding what is the program I/II setting? (I've tried to research this, but the best hits are for SPS-141-M/MVG - for formation flying, etc)

4) are really Continues/Impulse/Doppler/etc settings radars implemented in DCS? if yes, is jamming of those implemented via SPS pod?

5) how accurate are the radar frequencies implemented in DCS?

6) should i be able to jam using SPS-141-100 Hawk MIM-23B that is present in game? (my tests on 1.2.10 show that it is impossible, but this pod was exactly developed against early Hawks)? How about SA-3 Low blow? I've looked up that MPQ-46/HPIR is working somewhere 8-12GHz and SPS-141-100 should be able to jam 8.82-10.71GH (exact Hawk freq? -- according to Jane's)

7) how about jamming other AI planes?

8 ) how about jamming other human players? on polish forum where we tried to nail down the problem, 1 person reported that SPS-141 is able to jam FC3 Mig-29 radar but not the F-15

9) jamming... what effective ranges should we expect for the above?

 

I'm wanted to write in Bug section, because honeslty i believe that it should work somehow against even SA-3/HAWK that is present in game. I've done tenths of flight in single player to test it... all for nothing. Manual is a little bit silent on topic, and I just don't know if a) I'm doing something wrong b) unlikley but old SPS-141-Je is still classified? c) ECM in DCS is really oversimplified? d) I'm expecting too much - but you shouldn't be suprised;)

 

BTW: Apparently i'm not alone and there is a lot of doubt regarding SPS, see this:

 

• 
  
• http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=131879
  
• http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132212
  

 

Lot's of interesting questions.

Maybe you should use another subforum. Radar frequencies and the implemented ECM models are more regular DCS stuff instead of Leatherneck specific themes. Don't nail me on that but some patches ago I saw a notice that ECM strenght was upgraded (by 10-20%).

If this was not only for the A-10C I would think DCS uses a similar ECM model for all aircraft (with type specific ranges).

 

I don't think it would make sense to model specific frequencies at the current state of DCS. Since most modern Radars use ECCM tactics like frequency switching the amount of work would be incredible (Not to mention that most characteristics are still classified). :music_whistling:

[TwojaStara]

I know for sure that Ralfidude did ECM tests some time ago, and concluded on forum that ECM pods on A-10C were useless.

 

I don't think that ECM from 60s-70s are secret anymore, take a look on SamSim forum: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3735258/1 the best introduction i've ever seen to this topic. Also -21 has ECCM function for Saphir and it does "negate" ALL (!) jamming, while strictly it should probably help some forms only (I don't think it would be able to "magically" remove ECM of F15C for example). Even SA-6 KUB ECCM specifications are more or less in public knowledge....

 

still, questions are i think valid ;) Even if the SPS-141 doesnt work at all it would be nice to know it - i would stop wasting my time :)

[FSKRipper]

I know for sure that Ralfidude did ECM tests some time ago, and concluded on forum that ECM pods on A-10C were useless.

 

I don't think that ECM from 60s-70s are secret anymore, take a look on SamSim forum: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3735258/1 the best introduction i've ever seen to this topic. Also -21 has ECCM function for Saphir and it does "negate" ALL (!) jamming, while strictly it should probably help some forms only (I don't think it would be able to "magically" remove ECM of F15C for example). Even SA-6 KUB ECCM specifications are more or less in public knowledge....

 

still, questions are i think valid ;) Even if the SPS-141 doesnt work at all it would be nice to know it - i would stop wasting my time :)

 

If you mean his last post to ECM and A-10C it is no longer up to date. As stated on the last page the patch came out after his tests.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=126447&page=6

 

For all other means you might be correct. Don't have enough spare time to get deep into ECM atm but would still think that the people and testers in the general DCS Forum could give you more detailed information.

[QuiGon]

I would also like to know that since it's really briefly doumented in the manual. I also saw a post on this forum where a user siad he uses the SPS-141 in multiplayer to get closer to enemy F-15s. According to that it does work against human controlled planes?

[twicedead]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I was also curious about the SPS-141-100. I have been having tons of fun with the MiG-21 (great module!), but when I tried my hand at some wild weasel flying with the jammer, it does seem like it doesn't work.

 

I searched the forum and found a number of posts discussing this, but felt that TwojaStara formulated the issue best and so I post here.

 

Has there been any clarification from the devs? It would be nice to at least know for sure whether it's working as intended.

 

Thanks in advance, and again, the MiG-21 module is otherwise a five star piece of work.

[Harle]

Has there been any clarification from the devs?

 

Nope. Nothing whatsoever. Cobra seems to avoid commenting on the topic.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Harle

[terence44]

Hello, Always not ?

Thx

[Darkwolf]

Tested against S-125 @2000m @1000km/h - This thing just shoots me at 16km, no matter if it's on or off.

 

Just take a centerline fuel, ECM is wasting the Mig-21 stealth anyway.

[terence44]

Tested against S-125 @2000m @1000km/h - This thing just shoots me at 16km, no matter if it's on or off.

 

Just take a centerline fuel, ECM is wasting the Mig-21 stealth anyway.

 

Thx :(

[Toybasher]

Thx :(

 

 

It's being fixed in the 1.5 update according to another thread.

[terence44]

It's being fixed in the 1.5 update according to another thread.

 

Thx :)

[BSS_Sniper]

I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like it's been fixed.