NeilWillis Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Agreed and understood. If making a Mig 23 is made easier by having a Mig 21bis, then presumably a Mig 21 PFM (for example) would be even easier again because of the greater number of shared systems? True, but bear in mind that we're far more likely to see a MiG-23 than another MiG-21 because it is more radically different, and therefore will be perceived as more value for money, and therefore more likely to attract larger volume sales. That'd be my approach if I was in business, and producing modules. I have no doubt that some day, we'll start seeing more subtle variations, but I have a feeling it won't be soon.
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 True, but bear in mind that we're far more likely to see a MiG-23 than another MiG-21 because it is more radically different, and therefore will be perceived as more value for money, and therefore more likely to attract larger volume sales. That'd be my approach if I was in business, and producing modules. I have no doubt that some day, we'll start seeing more subtle variations, but I have a feeling it won't be soon. I hate to admit it, but it's how I'd approach it, too. If you were to make a second Fishbed, then one of the more modernized versions would make a lot more sense. -93s, -2000s, or a LanceR. Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!
NeilWillis Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Yep, who wouldn't love to see a whole slew of MiG-21 variants! I love the Bis, and I know I'd add them to my inventory. Like all things DCS, you just have to wait very patiently, and you're seldom disappointed.
john_X Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 I am working on the next mig-21 variants: Mig-21 PFM, MF and US. BUT, only external 3D models. If someone, somewhere, somehow believes he can come with a cockpit for these variants and want to put together with my external 3D models and make some mods/modules i am willing for it... Else, i'm going to keep them for me.. One more BUT, the guy must be an expert and to provide high quality work, as my models are very accurate
313_Nevo Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 ..bear in mind that we're far more likely to see a MiG-23 than another MiG-21 because it is more radically different, and therefore will be perceived as more value for money, and therefore more likely to attract larger volume sales. Lets say I agree with this, but how about a MiG21bis FC3 style? It should be very easy to handle for LN and will/can attract more causal players of DCSW. It can serve also as a 'demo version' so people can try FC3 MiG21 and if they like it they can upgrade to full DCSW module ;)
Folgore1987 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Lets say I agree with this, but how about a MiG21bis FC3 style? It should be very easy to handle for LN and will/can attract more causal players of DCSW. It can serve also as a 'demo version' so people can try FC3 MiG21 and if they like it they can upgrade to full DCSW module ;) I think this makes sense, but I would release other aircraft in the FC3-level, say, more "popular" aircraft that ED or third-party developers can't really make a high-fidelity model.
Buckeye Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I think this makes sense, but I would release other aircraft in the FC3-level, say, more "popular" aircraft that ED or third-party developers can't really make a high-fidelity model. The Mig-21 is one of the most popular aircraft of all time. I think you mean more modern/in service aircraft? Rig: SimLab P1X Chassis | Tianhang Base PRO + Tianhang F-16 Grip w/ OTTO Buttons | Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + OTTO switches and buttons | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper Tactile: G-Belt | 2x BK LFE + 1x BK Concert | 2x TST-429 | 1x BST-300EX | 2x BST-1 | 6x 40W Exciters | 2x NX3000D | 2x EPQ304 PC/VR: Somnium VR1 Visionary | 4090 | 12700K
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Lets say I agree with this, but how about a MiG21bis FC3 style? It should be very easy to handle for LN and will/can attract more causal players of DCSW. It can serve also as a 'demo version' so people can try FC3 MiG21 and if they like it they can upgrade to full DCSW module ;) Why bother? When you have the bis at the study sim level, why bother making it here? Instead, why not make it a different variant, such as the MiG-21-93? Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!
313_Nevo Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 why not make it a different variant, such as the MiG-21-93? I will try to use your own words so you can understand: Why bother? :smartass: :thumbup:
Folgore1987 Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) The Mig-21 is one of the most popular aircraft of all time. I think you mean more modern/in service aircraft? It's not. It is less popular than the Su-27 or the Mig-29, just to pick some russian examples. If we compare to western aircraft, F-16, F/A-18, F-14, Harrier, Tornado... All of these are more popular than the Mig-21, at least that's how I perceive it. Unless by popular you refer to the fact that it is the most produced supersonic jet fighter in aviation's history, which actually doesn't make it really "popular" among players, even among fans of aviation. If Leatherneck didn't make one, I don't think it would be one of the most asked for in those wishlist threads. But that's also all an assumption, I might be wrong. Edited February 19, 2015 by Folgore1987
tsb47 Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 It's not. It is less popular than the Su-27 or the Mig-29, just to pick some russian examples. If we compare to western aircraft, F-16, F/A-18, F-14, Harrier, Tornado... All of these are more popular than the Mig-21, at least that's how I perceive it. Unless by popular you refer to the fact that it is the most produced supersonic jet fighter in aviation's history, which actually doesn't make it really "popular" among players, even among fans of aviation. If Leatherneck didn't make one, I don't think it would be one of the most asked for in those wishlist threads. But that's also all an assumption, I might be wrong. I'd have to disagree with this. The Mig 21 has pretty good fan base from what I can tell. I personally was extremely happy it was made and would have been asking for it above all other Soviet fighters (except maybe Mig 15) in the meantime... Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit | i7-4790K@4GHz | 8GB RAM | GTX970 347.52
Buren Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) The MiG-21 is the quintessential mainstay soviet Cold War era fighter. And finally something that's not a WW2/Korean or modern fourth generation aircraft... There's a demand for that kind of thing, just look at how many people play (and mod) the Strike Fighters series, which has a particular focus on the '60s and '70s. (well, probably not that much, but the community is (was?) very active) The -21's (as in, the aircraft) popularity can be measured from that the final LN product had it's genesis in a fan FC2 mod and that the team could expand to work on three other modules after release. (and notwithstanding the final unfortunate seperation, I can't imagine having a '60s/'70s cold war aircraft if it wasn't for the start-up of that one particular person... but nevermind, he has become a bête noire, although I still hope we'll eventually see that MiG-23 and Su-17/22 from the current team someday) On the other hand, the fact that there wasn't any "clickable" fast mover before it -- and since -- probably also contributed in no small way to it's success. But still, in my opinon, a Mirage III or F-5 could not have ensured this kind of achievement as a first project. Edited February 20, 2015 by Buren [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I will try to use your own words so you can understand: :smartass: :thumbup: That is literally nonsensical and doesn't answer anything, really. Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!
313_Nevo Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 I wasnt answering anything, really :) MiG21 is definitely one of the most popular aircrafts of all time for me. I can remember I asked for this aircraft in ac wishlist back in the days of LockOn development.
Dudikoff Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Instead, why not make it a different variant, such as the MiG-21-93? This is a good idea. It would be a much more capable variant of the 21 which could hold its own with the other FC3 aircraft and the required data on it for a study sim is probably unavailable anyway. i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
mjmorrow Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) After the Mig-15bis, I am going to purchase the Leatherneck Simulations Mig-21bis. I don't know when I will purchase it. I am intend on making this one my next add-on, though. I am very impressed by what I have read and seen of the Leatherneck Mig-21bis. She seems very challenging, rewarding, and like a whole lot of fun. Unlike some players, I am not concerned that the Mig-21bis isn't a Vietnam era model. I figure that the Mig-21 was a very rare plane to encounter over the skies of Vietnam. For a Vietnam map, I think that the biggest threats to US warplanes would be bird strikes and surface to air weapons. While the NVAF could be very dangerous and GCI could help it coordinate highly effective hit and run attacks, the NVAF was pretty small. Most of the time, American pilots probably didn't encounter the NVAF. If Americans encountered the NVAF, US pilots probably encountered far more Mig-17s than they ever encountered Mig-21s. I think that the NVAF had no more than tens of Mig-21's. I think that the most important NVAF plane is probably the Mig-17. Don't get me wrong, a US Vietnam War era Mig-21 would be great to have, too. In the meantime, the Mig-21bis looks like a whole lot of fun. :thumbup: MJ Edited February 23, 2015 by mjmorrow [sIGPIC]http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv250/mjmorrow76/SPAD%20of%20a%20new%20generation_zpshcbftpce.png[/sIGPIC]
Home Fries Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I figure that the Mig-21 was a very rare plane to encounter over the skies of Vietnam. They only had about a squadron's worth of MiG-21s. After Operation Bolo bagged 7 MiG-21s, the fleet was grounded for months until they could develop new tactics. -Home Fries My DCS Files and Skins My DCS TARGET Profile for Cougar or Warthog and MFDs F-14B LANTIRN Guide
Folgore1987 Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 I think that the most important NVAF plane is probably the Mig-17. I don't think so. The MIG-21's even though they were in fewer numbers, they were still reponsible for the larger amount of downed USAF aircraft during the Vietnam War (air to air only). The best and majority of the vietnamese aces were MIG-21 pilots. Even in fewer numbers, they were able to do more damage to the USAF than the 17s, including shooting down a much larger amount of F-4s. In a game play perspective, the MIG-21 is a better addition to the Vietnam War because of that. It might not have played a bigger role overall than the MIG-17s, which are fighter-bombers, but if you were a pilot, you probably wanted to be flying on the 21s. Out of the 16 VPAF aces, 13 were MIG-21 pilots. 1
vicx Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Well maybe the real 'ACES' of Vietnam were SAM sites (probably bagged more kills than any airframe). While you are googling that one let me just post a link to a thread I enjoyed reading which attempts to place the most well known airframes and their variants into generations. Fighter generations via defence.pk forums. It was all that talk earlier in the thread about what aircraft to put together as adversaries that made me back track through me browsing history to find that link.
Folgore1987 Posted March 2, 2015 Posted March 2, 2015 Well maybe the real 'ACES' of Vietnam were SAM sites (probably bagged more kills than any airframe). . "Probably bagged more kills" is even absurd to say, they bagged way, way, way more kills than any airframe in that war. But we are not going to be playing with SAM's now, are we? What I meant is that in the perspective of the combat flight simulator, the MiG-21 is a better addition.
Robin_Hood Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Well maybe the real 'ACES' of Vietnam were SAM sites (probably bagged more kills than any airframe). Actually, I think the AAA were responsible for the majority of US losses in Vietnam, not the SAMs (the SAMs did force the aircraft to descend low enough that AAA could hit them - that kinda was the point) or NVAF. But hey, a detailed SAM simulation doesn't sound bad either. 2nd French Fighter Squadron
vicx Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Both fine points but what I really wanted to do was to steer people towards that great thread on defence.pk that actually attempts to match up aircraft by capability into GENERATIONS. I think the list is really cool and someone posts an awesome diagram that shows LEAD and LAG in technological development between the US, Soviet, UK, EU countries over the last fifty years. The 2nd Generation seems like a unique time where all the countries were at parity with their combat aircraft development. Late Korean War and Early Vietnam War Era. the MiG-21 is a better addition I agree that it is a good choice. The question is what should be it's adversary. Edited March 5, 2015 by vicx
Automaticbob Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I would happily pay for other variants of the mig-21. The mf, the lancer c, etc. Cover as many eras as they like. *edit vodka and spelling - not really compatible.
tsb47 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Me too Windows 7 Enterprise 64bit | i7-4790K@4GHz | 8GB RAM | GTX970 347.52
Folgore1987 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I agree that it is a good choice. The question is what should be it's adversary. The conversation was about the Vietnam War, where the MiG-17 might have played a bigger role, for it was more numerous, but what I meant was that the MiG-21, in a pilot's perspective, (or virtual pilots for the most part, I should say), is a better addition. If they are aiming at reenacting the Vietnam War, then F-4E. And if we take into account your link about the fighter jet generations, F-4E, as well. I guess, haven't looked at it throughly.
Recommended Posts