su27 instant intercept mission: how to do it?

[Guest deeplodokus]

Hi, I'm fairly new to DCS and FC3. I've read the su27 manual and I've done some easy missions with planes that don't shoot at me or jam only moderately.

 

I'm trying to do the su27 instant action. At the beginning of the mission, I think I can only lock the b52 bombers, but I should be locking the f5 fighters, but they jam. So do I just need to wait? If I wait too long, then I get shot at. I know I can figure out roughly their distance based on radar display, and adjust their expected range accordingly. Is it what I'm supposed to do, then fire missile even though the targets are still jamming and I can't get a proper lock?

 

Also, I don't really understand... If I'm in radar (I) mode and activate IRST mode (O), it seems that I can't use both R or IR missiles, something weird seems to happen. If I want to use IR missiles, do I need to turn off radar altogether?

 

Should I be running ECM from the beginning of the mission? Should I deactivate RWS?

 

Thank you. I'm a bit confused with all this, but I really want to understand how to do it! I'll read the manual again, but if you can help me that'd be much appreciated!

 

Thanks! :)

[pepin1234]

1- In the mission editor Set the enemy fighters in CAP task. Set a WPT toward your aircraft then they will attack you.

 

2- when you get enemy ECM. Try set your radar range in 50 km. This is cuz this is the distance your radar get a valid lock with distance and altitud. Anyway you can lock the enemy ECM but you never know the distance by radar beyond 50 km in this case. At this case the best way to get distance is looking in your EWR signal power.

 

3- When you are in Search mode (non lock the taget), you can not use both radar and EOS sensor. Only when you get a lock you can use both sensors.

Edited March 8, 2015 by pepin1234

[Guest deeplodokus]

1- In the mission editor Set the enemy fighters in CAP task. Set a WPT toward your aircraft then they will attack you.

 

2- when you get enemy ECM. Try set your radar range in 50 km. This is cuz this is the distance your radar get a valid lock with distance and altitud. Anyway you can lock the enemy ECM but you never know the distance by radar beyond 50 km in this case. At this case the best way to get distance is looking in your EWR signal power.

 

3- When you are in Search mode (non lock the taget), you can not use both radar and EOS sensor. Only when you get a lock you can use both sensors.

 

Thank you. I will try that.

 

Can I shoot a missile by overriding launch if the enemy is using ECM but I see them on radar via AWACS and if I use the right approximate distance? Or is that a waste of a missile?

[nickexists]

Overriding launch is pretty much a guaranteed wasted missile. Also expected range doesn't really change anything with the radar, it just changes how much the pitch of the antenna will change for each time you press the button, I never bother with it.

 

If a target is jamming and you still don't have burn through then you are pretty much guaranteed that they are too far away to hit.

 

Whether you are using radar or eos doesn't affect the ir missiles, If you are within firing range and don't have firing authorisation it is because the missile still doesn't see the heat signature of the target.

[Guest deeplodokus]

Overriding launch is pretty much a guaranteed wasted missile. Also expected range doesn't really change anything with the radar, it just changes how much the pitch of the antenna will change for each time you press the button, I never bother with it.

 

If a target is jamming and you still don't have burn through then you are pretty much guaranteed that they are too far away to hit.

 

Whether you are using radar or eos doesn't affect the ir missiles, If you are within firing range and don't have firing authorisation it is because the missile still doesn't see the heat signature of the target.

 

Understood, thanks.

So back to that instant mission: at the start of the instant su27 intercept mission (from the main DCS menu), the strategy is NOT to just go straight to the enemy, but somewhat manage to get behind them?

Problem is, with su27's radar missiles, they're not fire&forget, so... I can't do anything but wait once I've shot a radar missile, is that correct? As soon as I unlock, the missile goes to waste, is that correct?

[nickexists]

yes, that is the case, but there is no need to avoid a head on fight. The f-5s are only carrying aim-9s which have much less range than your r-27s. After firing a missile you want to turn so that the target is right at the edge of your radars scan range, this will reduce your closure rate so that once your first missile hits you should still be at a safe distance to engage the second. Also don't forget to use the radio menu to tell your wingman to engage bandits, otherwise he won't really do anything.

[Exorcet]

Understood, thanks.

So back to that instant mission: at the start of the instant su27 intercept mission (from the main DCS menu), the strategy is NOT to just go straight to the enemy, but somewhat manage to get behind them?

Problem is, with su27's radar missiles, they're not fire&forget, so... I can't do anything but wait once I've shot a radar missile, is that correct? As soon as I unlock, the missile goes to waste, is that correct?

I'm not familiar with this mission, but if you have R-27T or R-27ET missiles, those are fire and forget (but not radar guided).

 

If your main opponents are F-5's though, you shouldn't have much to worry about. The Su-27 completely outclasses them in BVR. Just wait until they are close enough that your missile will have high Pk and you should be able to kill them before they can fire back.

[Guest deeplodokus]

cool thanks for the tips! i'll tell my wingman to engage bandits and i'll try and keep the locked one on the side of my radar cone. hopefully i won't keep being humiliated like i've been so far :D

[Belgeode]

I've played this one a few times, and the above comments are spot on on your best strategy. Not to spoil anything, but the F-5s are the least of your worries on this one. You will also have to deal with Phantoms and Falcons. The Falcons imo are the hardest, being as agile as they are.

 

Best advice, use your wingman well, and try not to waste any missiles at all, especially the radar guided ones. You'll need them when you go up against the others.

[Azrayen]

At the beginning of the mission, I think I can only lock the b52 bombers, but I should be locking the f5 fighters, but they jam.

Nope.

The B-52 are jamming, not the F-5s.

Set properly your radar (elevation relative to target, frequency...) and you'll be able to detect, lock the fighers. Maneuver if needed so that you get separate bearing for the jamming bombers and the un-jamming fighters.

Your missiles outrange that of the F-5, so this part should be easy. If you get shot at during this first engagement, you're doing something wrong.

Remember to give orders to your AI wingman, too.

[Guest deeplodokus]

oh, the b52s are jamming? :) i was assuming the fighters would. is it from the RWS that you can tell it's the b52s jamming and not the f5s?

 

again, many thanks all. this is all very helpful!

 

Nope.

The B-52 are jamming, not the F-5s.

Set properly your radar (elevation relative to target, frequency...) and you'll be able to detect, lock the fighers. Maneuver if needed so that you get separate bearing for the jamming bombers and the un-jamming fighters.

Your missiles outrange that of the F-5, so this part should be easy. If you get shot at during this first engagement, you're doing something wrong.

Remember to give orders to your AI wingman, too.

[OnlyforDCS]

If the B52's are jamming though, wouldnt it be a better bet to take them out with ERs in HOJ mode and not even engage the escort? (Or to task the wingman to engage escort).

 

An ER fired from 15-20 km should be able to hit a large slow manouvering target with little problems or am I wrong about this?

[Guest deeplodokus]

the b52s won't be a problem. i was assuming it was the f5s jamming, not the b52s. if the f5s are not jamming, i'll destroy the f5s, then handle the b52s, then see what happens :)

 

thanks

 

If the B52's are jamming though, wouldnt it be a better bet to take them out with ERs in HOJ mode and not even engage the escort? (Or to task the wingman to engage escort).

 

An ER fired from 15-20 km should be able to hit a large slow manouvering target with little problems or am I wrong about this?

[Guest deeplodokus]

mh... there's still something that i don't quite understand... why do i have launch authorised when the fighters are definitely beyond my weapon's range as shown on the middle display?

 

edit: i actually managed to finish the mission, destroy all enemies (with the help of my wingmate) and land in beslan all safe! quite proud of myself :)

 

although i still don't understand that LA when i have NOT pressed launch override and when the fighters are beyond the weapon's range

still need to understand better how to lock specific targets when there's jamming happening... or do i just need to make do with the jamming, go for HI mode (instead of MED or ILV) and wait to burn through then finally select with the cursor?

Edited March 9, 2015 by deeplodokus

[ShuRugal]

if you are locked up HoJ, then the expected range setting determines LA, since the radar has no way of knowing how far the target is.

[nickexists]

It's important to understand that the range bar on the hud marks two important ranges. The first, is the hit range assuming the target continues in a straight line. The second is your max hit range assuming that the target turns away from you.

 

If a target is already headed directly away from you then these two ranges will be the same. But in the case that you are head on there will be a large difference between the two ranges.

 

It is likely that you have LA because you are far enough within range of the first range that you don't even see it on the bar anymore. I usually try to fire when I am just a little further than the second range, depending on the circumstances.

[Guest deeplodokus]

if you are locked up HoJ, then the expected range setting determines LA, since the radar has no way of knowing how far the target is.

 

understood. is it recommended to NOT shoot a missile in that case, or is the success rate comparable with a proper lock?

edit: i think the answer to this question is already there a bit earlier in this thread where someone was saying it's almost an assured wasted missile in that case

edit2: although i don't quite understand something, again... on the middle view display, i can see dotted lines and an object symbol. if i see an object symbol, doesn't it mean that the radar has burnt through? in that case distance should be correct, not user-input?

 

It is likely that you have LA because you are far enough within range of the first range that you don't even see it on the bar anymore. I usually try to fire when I am just a little further than the second range, depending on the circumstances.

ok :)

 

things are getting a LOT clearer thanks to all of you guys. thank you so much!

 

i see no ECM led on the right-hand side of the cockpit. i've google-imaged where the ECM light should light up but it seems like it never lights up. i saw that there was a bug about that, is it still the case? apart from the light, do i have a way to see if ECM is on/off? is ECM really useful? should i use ECM from the start of the mission, or in general as soon as i enter combat mode?

Edited March 10, 2015 by deeplodokus

[nickexists]

In order to have ECM you need to have the two ECM pods loaded on the wingtips. Personally I think it's useless and opt for the two extra r-73s instead.

[Guest deeplodokus]

In order to have ECM you need to have the two ECM pods loaded on the wingtips. Personally I think it's useless and opt for the two extra r-73s instead.

 

ok, thanks

 

i'll check again, but it really seems like on this mission, the range displayed on the middle display by r73er is LESS than this of r73et. shouldn't it be the exact opposite??

 

also, it seems like i get shot at by the f5s before they get to my missile's range... and when i tell my wingman to engage, he shoots instantly, although on my side the r73er still shows that the f5s are far from being within range... i don't get it :(

 

whenever i feel i'm starting to understand things, there's something new that comes and proves me wrong... :{ :) enjoying playing the game though!

 

edit:

ok so i just checked again: at the start of the mission, the range displayed by r27er is less than this of r27et. i don't understand that?!

in radar, i'm in scan mode, HI (not med/ilv as i know the fighters are coming straight at me). all i'm seeing is 2 vertical jamming 'signals'. i get missiles shot at me long before i can burn through and lock anything. i can't seem to isolate the 2 fighters from the 2 jamming b52s, even if i try to play with the radar altitude target thing. am i doing something wrong? this situation happens whether i stay at initial altitude (around 6000m) or go up (up to 9000-10000m). sometimes i'm lucky and i get to lock the fighters very early in the mission, but i'm not sure how i do that. should i deactivate RWS?

Edited March 11, 2015 by deeplodokus

[Azrayen]

Set properly your radar (elevation relative to target, frequency...) and you'll be able to detect, lock the fighers. Maneuver if needed so that you get separate bearing for the jamming bombers and the un-jamming fighters.

:music_whistling:

[Guest deeplodokus]

:music_whistling:

:chair: :)

 

what about the r27et having more range than r27er though?

edit: i don't remember that the manual mentioned anything about missile ranges varying depending on the in-game situation, but maybe it's just the case...

Edited March 11, 2015 by deeplodokus

[nickexists]

ET and ER have almost the exact same range, you are probably misreading something. Here is a less than perfect track of me completing the mission. (Went into a flat spin half way through.) It did take me a few tries due to the difficulty in finding the fighters right in front of the jamming signal.

Intercept.trk

[Guest deeplodokus]

ET and ER have almost the exact same range, you are probably misreading something. Here is a less than perfect track of me completing the mission. (Went into a flat spin half way through.) It did take me a few tries due to the difficulty in finding the fighters right in front of the jamming signal.

wow, thank you so much for this, i'll have a look after work today!!!

 

thanks all for your patience and tips. i'm a newbie and you've helped a lot!

[Bourrinopathe]

Hi deeplodokus,

 

Congratulations for completing the mission.

 

As an almost fresh newbie like you in air combat, I've recorded my last Intercept mission (v1.2.15 track).

 

For the two F-5, I usually wait a strong signal (around 20km), assign the first target to my wingman, and engage the second F-5. It depends on how it goes though.

As the next bandits are coming from the mountains, engage them as soon as possible even if the B-52s are still intact. They won't wait for you to kill their buddies ;)

 

The most difficult task for me is to spot an AIM-9 shot and pull a defensive maneuver soon enough.

 

I'd try to confirm any kill before switching target unless another bandit is a higher threat.

 

Also, don't forget to use the AWACS if you need some bearings. (I would strongly advise to use a voice recognition software (like VoiceAttack) for the AI comms ("AWACS, bogey dope", "Flight, engage my target", …) - it feels way more natural and it's efficient)

 

For my track: you can skip the end, right after the last fighter kill. The end of the mission is seriously sloppy as I was distracted by someone in the room :doh: (sloppy navigation, forgot my active OLS, asking for Mozdok, landing @ Beslan, trashing a wheel on the runway (break and turn @ high speed), …). Don't do everything you see at the end :D

R27-ER and ET fired in the action (the ET always missing iirc).

 

Anyway, every bandit down, AWACS and wingman alive. So that's pretty decent, I guess.

 

I really like that simple Instant Action mission as it's a very good training mission.

SU27 - Intercept - sloppy landing.trk

Edited March 12, 2015 by Bourrinopathe

[Guest deeplodokus]

thank you so much for the recorded flights! this is very helpful!

 

nickexists i'll try to re-create your flight

Bourrinopathe the flight you have shared, you get shot and eject after the first 2 fighters, don't you? :)

 

anyway! going to try now!!