Su-27 Flight Performance

[ArkRoyal]

Good work, and nearly correct conclusion (the one being out-turned is the pilot. The flanker has advantages at low/slow that aren't reflected in STR or ITR charts ... I won't be going into it though).

 

The chart you posted actually comes with specific data regarding the GW and payload for both aircraft. Unfortunately, I don't remember what they were - certainly each aircraft was equipped with at least two heaters though.

 

Also we did at some point find out that the F-15 performance in this chart is slightly over-estimated, but IIRC it is also for an F-15A. -100 and -220 are not the same, and the -220 performs very nicely despite it's 'stated on the internet' lower thrust output compared to the -100.

 

Finally, a note or turn rate: If you got your TR from Tacview, it may not be accurate. It's fine for comparing relative performance of two aircraft, but might not reflect what's in the charts. Probably the best way to measure anything in-game when you intend to compare to RL charts is to use your cockpit instruments.

 

So, in this case, your parameters would be in-game GW, in-game sustained G, in-game TAS.

 

You can convert those parameters into TR easily enough, though usually you can just find TASvG charts so you don't have to go that far :)

 

Thanks:)

 

For my SA, which part is incorrect? Do you think I'm right regarding relative turn rate for the Eagle when at proportional weight? When you refer to low and slow advantages, are you referring to radius? In some of the mock dogfights I did after testing the specific performance, we noticed that a Flanker could reverse its turn after the first circle, cut speed by pulling high AoA and line up a Archer shot in this manner. Quite a bit like the tactics employed by the say, a F-18. Nose to nose fighting instead of nose to tail. However, in a classic nose to tail fight, that doesn't do much for the flanker if the fight is guns only and the Eagle just keeps on turning. Although you might lose him for a second, or trick a dumb pilot into going slow with you. Although it seems to me that in a guns only fight, a Eagle could either stay at corner and simply come around at again at best rate, or take advantage of the fact that the Flanker dumped his E to shorten his radius and go vertical.

 

Also for testing I did note the T/R issue in tacview, so instead I measured it by timing the circle in tacview. Also recorded Mach and G but didnt include it here.

[ArkRoyal]

Sidenote, I also tested Acceleration to see if the tuning for 20C is fixed. It appears to have been, as I was getting the correct figures for the -1. In addition to this, performance at 20C would be worse than a standard day, so it seems to me that the "thrust" issue of the Eagle would actually improve its performance when fixed, not make it worse. Although, from what I can tell, the plane is now correctly tuned.

[Esac_mirmidon]

This charts are:

 

F-15A vs Su-27S.

 

50% internal fuel.

 

Su-27S payload: 2xR-73 2XR-27R

 

F-15A: 4 Sidewinders.

[GGTharos]

Thanks:)

 

For my SA, which part is incorrect? Do you think I'm right regarding relative turn rate for the Eagle when at proportional weight?

 

Sorry, I'll clarify: Your answer is technically correct, the only small issue with it is not knowing the exact payloads and GWs for each aircraft. But once more I'll point out that this is for an F-15A, a C will be heavier which IIRC you were forced to account for :)

 

I was just thinking bigger picture, thus, 'the pilot is being out-turned' :)

 

When you refer to low and slow advantages, are you referring to radius? In some of the mock dogfights I did after testing the specific performance, we noticed that a Flanker could reverse its turn after the first circle, cut speed by pulling high AoA and line up a Archer shot in this manner. Quite a bit like the tactics employed by the say, a F-18. Nose to nose fighting instead of nose to tail.

 

That is an advantage yes, a one-circle fight should go to the flanker. You don't really need to use all of your speed though ... if you don't want your bandit to have a chance to escape, you can be more patient and take smaller gains every turn. But that's not necessarily efficient BFM.

 

However, in a classic nose to tail fight, that doesn't do much for the flanker if the fight is guns only and the Eagle just keeps on turning. Although you might lose him for a second, or trick a dumb pilot into going slow with you. Although it seems to me that in a guns only fight, a Eagle could either stay at corner and simply come around at again at best rate, or take advantage of the fact that the Flanker dumped his E to shorten his radius and go vertical.

 

Which is why the flanker shouldn't necessarily dump his E. Just because you have a lot of ITR capability doesn't mean you should use up all of it in one turn. Just because you're at 700kph doesn't mean you should end up at 300 after your turn. :)

 

Measures of maneuverability in RL combine STR, ITR, roll and acceleration (And possibly other fun characteristics). It's not just any single one of those things, so when we say 'this plane turns better', we're referring to STR/ITR but these are the tip of the iceberg. There's an entire science behind this.

[Yo-Yo]

This charts are:

 

F-15A vs Su-27S.

 

50% internal fuel.

 

Su-27S payload: 2xR-73 2XR-27R

 

F-15A: 4 Sidewinders.

 

I hope all here noticed what 50% for Su-27 means?

[GGTharos]

4500kg of fuel :)

[rami80]

It seems like the F-15's thrust has been fixed. Has anyone had the chance to test if the turning performance between the two has changed?