Hummingbird Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Which Mig-21 is this though? Ingame MiG-21 has emergency afterburner that can produce 100kN thrust, Fishbed C according to the guy who provided it, but I honestly don't know.
RoflSeal Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Fishbed C according to the guy who provided it, but I honestly don't know. Fishbed C is the F-13 then, MF is Fishbed J, bis is Fishbed L/N
Hummingbird Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Fishbed C is the F-13 then, MF is Fishbed J, bis is Fishbed L/N Yes, also makes the most sense if it were the F-13 as this is the one the US tested extensively. What is the weight difference between the F-13 and Bis ?
jojo Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Which Mig-21 is this though? Ingame MiG-21 has emergency afterburner that can produce 100kN thrust. Considering this is US test data this is probably either Mig-21F-13 or MF which produce 56kN and 64kN of afterburner thrust respectively. How long can you stay in emergency mode ? Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi
spiddx Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 How long can you stay in emergency mode ? 3 minutes... 30 sec break... 3 minutes... 30 sec break... and so on. Only works below 5000m altitude. Specs: i9 10900K @ 5.1 GHz, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, MSI Z490 MEG Godlike, 32GB DDR4 @ 3600, Win 10, Samsung S34E790C, Vive, TIR5, 10cm extended Warthog on WarBRD, Crosswinds
RoflSeal Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Yes, also makes the most sense if it were the F-13 as this is the one the US tested extensively. What is the weight difference between the F-13 and Bis ? Empty weight difference is 400kg, difference between standard afterburners is 1345kg thrust, difference between emergency afterburner and standard afterburner is 4150kg thrust.
ESAc_matador Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Considering that the Mirage can currently only hold a max of 7 G, which I believe the MiG-21 can approach too, then it's not an overstatement at all. Actually, 6 or 7 G at different speed gives different turning rate.... so saying they have similar G is not a valid statement. What is the corner and sustained turn speed?
=Thrust= Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Don't know why everybody wants to compare Mirage 2000 with Mig-21... maybe because it's a french aircraft... The Mirage 2000 C-RDI (the module's version) should be compared with F16-A/B and Mig-29A. It's written and repeated everywhere in this sub-forum... + 10 , i checked against f15c with 50/100 fuel (about same as 2000),with Skill "exelent" okok against IA to test , but goshh, the F15 keep fliying with less one wing and half stabilizer !!!!and going away like a rabbit :doh: Funny:pilotfly: Edited January 10, 2016 by =THRUST=
Hook47 Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Empty weight difference is 400kg, difference between standard afterburners is 1345kg thrust, difference between emergency afterburner and standard afterburner is 4150kg thrust. Pretty significant differences. I use the EAB regularly in combat. Love that the plane (MiG 21) is equipped with it. + 10 , i checked against f15c with 50/100 fuel (about same as 2000),with Skill "exelent" okok against IA to test , but goshh, the F15 keep fliying with less one wing and half stabilizer !!!!and going away like a rabbit :doh: Funny:pilotfly: Everyone is more than aware that the M2000C and MiG 21Bis are not contemporaries. It is indeed repeated (FAR too) often on these forums. That being said, no full fidelity or even flyable F-16A is in the sim, and the MiG 29A is far less popular than the MiG 29S which in my estimation (flying both quite a bit) is superior to the M-2000C. Also the MiG 29S is not full fidelity so that gives an advantage to the plane with the easier operation. The MiG 21 and Mirage 2000 turned into unofficial rivals as they are the only two full fidelity interceptor/fighters in the sim, and probably the MiG 21 is the aircraft which the current M-2000C has the best chance fighting against. Mix that with the sim being full of seasoned MiG 21 jocks who love a challenge, and you end up with servers like the MiG 21 vs M-2000 server, and lots of comparisons stemming from that. I do not see the reason for coming into a 30 page discussion about the two aircraft, and essentially telling us to cease the discussion because the MiG 21 and M-2000C were not rivals (like it is news to us :lol:) Edited January 11, 2016 by Hook47
Hummingbird Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Actually, 6 or 7 G at different speed gives different turning rate.... so saying they have similar G is not a valid statement. What is the corner and sustained turn speed? Both aircraft reach their corner speed at around the same speed, i.e. around Mach 0.8, hence why I only mentioned the G's.
Hummingbird Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Empty weight difference is 400kg, difference between standard afterburners is 1345kg thrust, difference between emergency afterburner and standard afterburner is 4150kg thrust. I'd like the gross weight differences, esp. since I can see that the difference there is almost a ton between the PFM and Bis.
TomCatMucDe Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Both aircraft reach their corner speed at around the same speed, i.e. around Mach 0.8, hence why I only mentioned the G's. I dont have the plot in front of me but i remember that the Mirage corner speed at SL is between 0.5 and 0.6 Mach
Hummingbird Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I dont have the plot in front of me but i remember that the Mirage corner speed at SL is between 0.5 and 0.6 Mach Yes you're right, I simply mistyped, still around the same area (0.65-0.70). Difference is the Mirage should be capable of an ITR of 9 G's at its Vc at 15kft (M 0.65), where'as the MiG-21 should only be capable of 7 G's at its Vc (M 0.7) at 15 kft. At the Mirage's Vc of M 0.65 the MiG-21 should only be capable of pulling 6.2 G's. Also since I was talking about sustained load factors they reach their best sustained load factors at roughly the same speed as well, again though the Mirage should easily be able to hold a higher G load, which is not the case atm, it just being capable of holding at SL what it should be capable of holding at 15,000 ft. Edited January 11, 2016 by Hummingbird
TomCatMucDe Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Yes you're right, I simply mistyped, still around the same area. the MiG seems to have slightly higher mach for corner speed nut certainly within the pilot error margin. However, at 7G for a few seconds the Mig will depart
Hummingbird Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 The problem with the ingame Mirage though is its lack of STR even approaching the real life values. Something which will hopefully be fixed with the next patch, at least the patch notes seem to suggest so, it is just holding ~7 G's at SL, something it should be capable of holding around 15 kft.
RoflSeal Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I'd like the gross weight differences, esp. since I can see that the difference there is almost a ton between the PFM and Bis. Well, then just add fuel, pilot, weapons and ammunition. Gross weight depends entirely on loadout.
Hummingbird Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Well, then just add fuel, pilot, weapons and ammunition. Gross weight depends entirely on loadout. I don't have those figures at hand however, hence why I am asking ;) With these figures I can estimate the performance difference.
Hook47 Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 I guess things will get more interesting on the M-2000C Vs MiG 21 server post this upcoming patch, I see STT rate has been tweaked on the internal build
Hummingbird Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 I guess things will get more interesting on the M-2000C Vs MiG 21 server post this upcoming patch, I see STT rate has been tweaked on the internal build Yes, once implemented hopefully the Mirage will be able to hold 9+ G's at SL as its supposed to.
Hook47 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Yes, once implemented hopefully the Mirage will be able to hold 9+ G's at SL as its supposed to. I'm assuming the M2000 pilots have a G suit comparable to the western technology. I am not too up on G suits but IIRC they can keep the pilots lights on up to about 10-12Gs, correct? Good work on the turn rate testing in the other thread BTW, I am sure that contributed to fixing it, and as much as I like fighting M2000 vs Mig 21 from both sides, the Mirage needs its real life turn rate (even if it messes up the match up... As it is now it is already a mistake to turn with a mirage based on low speed handling alone)
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 No, they can't. Once you pass about 7g it's all about training and physical condition. Each g you add reduces the amount of time you can stay there. 12gs will most likely take you out of the fight. There are effects that are just not simulated. If you actually black out of example, and in particular if you g-loc, your g tolerance is gone, your ability to concentrate is gone. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ttaylor0024 Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I'm assuming the M2000 pilots have a G suit comparable to the western technology. I am not too up on G suits but IIRC they can keep the pilots lights on up to about 10-12Gs, correct? A G-Suit really is only good for about 1 extra G of tolerance, it's not a crazy magic suit like most people think. Conditioning of the body is the most important factor IMO, and the next would be technique. You just build up a tolerance over time as well. The first time I pulled 2Gs I thought it felt crazy. First time I did 4 I thought I was dying. By the end of my aero training I could do 6 for 15-20s no problem without the hic maneuver or G Suit. No, they can't. Once you pass about 7g it's all about training and physical condition. Each g you add reduces the amount of time you can stay there. 12gs will most likely take you out of the fight. There are effects that are just not simulated. Yeah, like how painful/difficult it is to turn your head, how hard it is to breath, how the tops of your eyelids start falling down, your cheeks sag, etc. It's a good time though! Edited January 13, 2016 by ttaylor0024
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Right, but I'm referring to the lightheadedness, lack of concentration, sleepy or headachy kind of discomfort. Go to negative g's and you'll be out for over a day with headache and discomfort. So, when you over reach you really pay for it and the game didn't simulate any of that. Pain etc of a G pull in your tolerance range is probably immediately recoverable, the stuff I'm taking about isn't :-) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Hummingbird Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 It differs from person to person, some people can G-loc and then with a little rest, like 10-15 min, once again achieve their best.
GGTharos Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 10-15 minutes of rest is out of the fight. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
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