A little note for the Dev team

[il_corleone]

First of all, I am very excited about this module, bought it three days ago and waiting!

 

I want to say thanks to the team for the hard work and good luck, in every video I see the progress and it is looking very good, now I will say my opinion on the weapons availible.

 

Seeing that the EXOCET, is a no way is a bit of a bad day to me, but the question of the ARMAT is still in the air, I want to say that I will be very happy if you guys implement that weapon and I am sure it will really boost the sells of the Module or at least give the people some interest.

 

I am not comparing modules , but LNS did the same with the GROM, not 100% accurate lets say, but for the sake of gameplay is there, and I have and the 90% doesen`t have any problem, and the most important is not mandatory to use them, a server can "rip it" if you guys want 100% accurate armament. Also this shoulldn`t be any "Important" realism issue, is not things like missile nuke launcher on a Rifle

 

So that said, This is my opinion and my squadron`s opinion, I know that something that is not 100% accurate here is not good, but this is not giving a tank a nuke launcher, it is something, from what I read, that could be very possible to carry on the aircraft , and possibly was not made because it wasn`t needed.

 

I know many people will say or said, why not 120 for the Tomcat, or anything else? well in my opinion the Tomcat has a good weaponry of AA weapons, and one more is not needed, here, and in DCS we dont have anything more atm that can do SEAD, and in Gameplay it will benefict, and the Mirage is not very extent on his weaponry.

 

 

As I said, this is just my opinion ,and every 3rd Party or every module is not the same, I do not like to compare them, just sharin my opinion to the Team and the mature Forum

 

Thanks for your time reading this and sorry for my English.

 

Salute

 

Note : http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2481412&postcount=37

Edited October 10, 2015 by il_corleone

[sedenion]

I think the best way, the "best practice" is that RAZBAM should 'creates' two variants of the M-2000 ... The standard French 2000C-RDI (current), and maybe an "RDM" version (maybe the EG, and/or the others export variants that fit with)... The question is: What is the amount of work in addition ? Is this amount reasonable, or must be sold as an additionnal module ? In the same module, but later ? Only RAZBAM can answer...

[il_corleone]

I think the best way, the "best practice" is that RAZBAM should 'creates' two variants of the M-2000 ... The standard French 2000C-RDI (current), and maybe an "RDM" version (maybe the EG, and/or the others export variants that fit with)... The question is: What is the amount of work in addition ? Is this amount reasonable, or must be sold as an additionnal module ? In the same module, but later ? Only RAZBAM can answer...

 

Well I think that could be a possibility but creating another aircraft, is a very hard work, if they coudn`t. I think that adding the ARMAT in this one wouldn`t harm anyone, I still have hope

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2479235&postcount=24

 

EDIT: I found some information about the ARMAT, it doesent require a radar, so the Version RDI it shouldn`t be the problem

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2481412&postcount=37

Thanks to VincentLaw

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2481695&postcount=48

Also, thanks mattetuben for his post.

 

:D

Edited October 10, 2015 by il_corleone

[Slipp]

+1

 

ARMAT would be great. It would be a great addition.

[frantzleb0ucher]

the M-2000D (the 2 seat attack variant) would be great

[sedenion]

the M-2000D (the 2 seat attack variant) would be great

 

That require to create new 3D models, it's a very different avionic.. huge work... a totaly new module... The 2000EG-RDM (for example) variant will probably just require reworking the radar implementation and some weapons systems.

[jojo]

Why don't you request ED to add AGM-88 HARM and AGM-84 Harpoon to F-15C ?

I think F-15C AG weaponry is very limited...

[il_corleone]

Why don't you request ED to add AGM-88 HARM and AGM-84 Harpoon to F-15C ?

I think F-15C AG weaponry is very limited...

 

Sorry, but that is not a constructive post.

I am not gonna say anything to you buddy, but c`mon, I am gonna be polite.

 

F-15C is not meant for AG combat, and you have the E version for that, the Mirage atleast carry dumb bombs, rockets and ARMAT / EXOCET on subversions, none of the "subversions" of the F15 is wired to shoot those weapons

 

well I found this http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f15_26.html

 

And yes, looks like they wired some of them for testing, the ARMAT was already standard wired on the older version of Mirage

Edited October 10, 2015 by il_corleone

[Azrayen]

Well, actually it's almost as legitimate a request... ;)

[il_corleone]

Well, actually it's almost as legitimate a request... ;)

 

It is, but I think I have better base to make this one

[VincentLaw]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2481412&postcount=37

Thanks to VincentLaw

You can add to that list:

 

Mirage 2000, Lavauzelle in collaboration with SIRPA AIR and Dassault Aviation, 1992, pp. 120-128.

This official book lists the ARMAT as an armament of the Mirage 2000. Unfortunately it does not specify which variants can use it. It does say "[ARMAT] reste encore tres secret" (it is still very secret), which seems to be the general trend in literature related to the ARMAT.

[il_corleone]

You can add to that list:

 

Mirage 2000, Lavauzelle in collaboration with SIRPA AIR and Dassault Aviation, 1992, pp. 120-128.

This official book lists the ARMAT as an armament of the Mirage 2000. Unfortunately it does not specify which variants can use it. It does say "[ARMAT] reste encore tres secret" (it is still very secret), which seems to be the general trend in literature related to the ARMAT.

 

thanks for that info, I am gonna also add, that this module, will not be 100% correct because of the "secret" files, they said that back ago, so, what matter to add something that will add more gameplay options and is not something abnormal? and also, as a extra, I notice thta 90% of the servers blocked the Nukes on the 21, for the problem you want to name, ok, but nobody complained, this can be also that if this starts to be like that

Edited October 10, 2015 by il_corleone

[Azrayen]

It is, but I think I have better base to make this one

Agreed, hence the "almost" :)

 

As said earlier and elsewhere: Rest assured that I would be happy to be able to use this missile if Razbam feels confident enough to integrate it. But as far as we know, it would be an arrangement with reality that we try to simulate. That being said, I'm not unconfortable with that specific case; people with a "tougher" position regarding this can always choose not to use it nor allow its use on their servers/missions.

 

++

Az'

[il_corleone]

Agreed, hence the "almost" :)

 

As said earlier and elsewhere: Rest assured that I would be happy to be able to use this missile if Razbam feels confident enough to integrate it. But as far as we know, it would be an arrangement with reality that we try to simulate. That being said, I'm not unconfortable with that specific case; people with a "tougher" position regarding this can always choose not to use it nor allow its use on their servers/missions.

 

++

Az'

 

100% with you, like the example of the "nuke" above, and about the arrangement of reality we try to simulate, RAZBAM stated that the day one because of the lack of some information, I think this can work

[Azrayen]

OK, then I'm for waiting for Razbam to tell us:

- what decision they've made

- and (linked) if they feel confident enough (my guess is that's a tricky part, this one)

[il_corleone]

Let's wait for Razbam to tell us:

- what decision they've made

- and (linked) if they feel confident enough (my guess is that's a tricky part, this one)

 

Yes, and thanks for this mature conversation

 

a pleasure,

 

Salute

[Moos_tachu]

F-15C is not meant for AG combat, and you have the E version for that

 

Mirage 2000C is not meant for AG combat, you have the D version for that.

 

Comparison with F-15 is very appropriate in this instance.

2000D is just as close to 2000C as F-15E is to F-15C, i.e. totally different airframe and weapons system.

[jojo]

Sorry, but that is not a constructive post.

I am not gonna say anything to you buddy, but c`mon, I am gonna be polite.

 

F-15C is not meant for AG combat, and you have the E version for that, the Mirage atleast carry dumb bombs, rockets and ARMAT / EXOCET on subversions, none of the "subversions" of the F15 is wired to shoot those weapons

 

well I found this http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f15_26.html

 

And yes, looks like they wired some of them for testing, the ARMAT was already standard wired on the older version of Mirage

 

HARM and Harpoon are available on F-15K. You can answer F-15K is export variant..but it will be the same with 2000 E.

 

I mean no offense. But I have been dreaming of Mirage 2000 from 1988 to 2004 (yes I was a child at beginning:D) and I still read everything I can find since then. I NEVER saw these weapons on Mirage 2000 C RDI.

 

The very scarce pictures I have of 2000 E I have show different HUD display, different PCA logic, it uses a different radar...it's a different weapon system !

 

Be happy with what is coming, it will be a different way of doing business :thumbup:

[VincentLaw]

I NEVER saw these weapons on Mirage 2000 C RDI.

Yes, this is correct. We have not seen photos of the ARMAT mounted on a Mirage 2000 RDI, however, absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. Literature on the Mirage 2000 being able to use the ARMAT is both extensive and vague, and information related to the ARMAT is veiled in secrecy. I'd rather not treat instinct as fact, so I will continue searching for actual evidence definitively proving one way or the other.

[jojo]

First :

- ARMAT is export only, never delivered to FAF who used AS37 Martel.

- I have books about Jaguar and Mirage III E (DTU) which give some details.

It was complicated to use on these planes who had only very primitive RWR (worse than SPO-15)

 

This has nothing to do with what we know of AGM-88 in our flight simulators, or SEAD in Frogfoot in DCS.

You have to know before take what radar you want to attack to choose the correct seeker of 3 possible.

 

The missile was retired with Jaguar, and has not been used in Bosnia or Kosovo campaign despite the SAM activity.

France had already 2 fighters carrying the Martel (Jaguar A & Mirage III E). Why would we have diverted our primary fighter until late 90' from their main task ? (2000 C pilot training was 80% AA and 20% AG).

 

SEAD is a complex qualification.

 

What is secret is export market. Use of Martel in FAF is documented. Martel is not ASMP, it's not so hush-hush. This is just there isn't so much to talk about !

[VincentLaw]

First :

- ARMAT is export only, never delivered to FAF who used AS37 Martel.

This is incorrect. There are multiple literature sources indicating French usage of the ARMAT. The fact that you believe otherwise is a symptom of the secrecy of the missile.

[Flogger23m]

Why don't you request ED to add AGM-88 HARM and AGM-84 Harpoon to F-15C ?

I think F-15C AG weaponry is very limited...

 

Because unlike your example, the Mirage 2000C can carry the ARMAT. Just a different radar module. Adding a different radar module isn't like re-creating an entirely new aircraft from scratch either. Just a few avionics and possibly some 3D model changes in the cockpit. Not something that can be done in a week, but an unrealistic goal either.

 

Having both variants of the C would be nice.

[jojo]

This is incorrect. There are multiple literature sources indicating French usage of the ARMAT. The fact that you believe otherwise is a symptom of the secrecy of the missile.

 

We already had this discussion. You place your faith in the wrong publications...

I already posted link on French Weapon Agency history (DGA) who was driving these weapons programs. If you can read French just read it.

Most of your sources are probably copying each other.

 

The ARMAT was proposed for export, and was probably marketed as a way to expand aircraft missions.

 

I have pictures of Mirage 2000N flying with Matra BGL and Atlis pod...yet it was for air show.

The same with Rafale flying with AS30L...just for pictures.

 

If you're are a complots theory adept I can't do anything for you. Just throw your Jane's book and alike away.

Sometimes it's surprising good data. Sometimes it's just wrong. And you can't sort it out unless you're military with good sources...

[jojo]

Because unlike your example, the Mirage 2000C can carry the ARMAT. Just a different radar module. Adding a different radar module isn't like re-creating an entirely new aircraft from scratch either. Just a few avionics and possibly some 3D model changes in the cockpit. Not something that can be done in a week, but an unrealistic goal either.

 

Having both variants of the C would be nice.

 

Yes...and then why not AM39, and why not AS30L, why not ASMP...where do they have to stop ?

Why not Antilope V radar, it's just a TFR radar no big deal ! None of you can provide RELIABLE data to sustain your claims, or documents to say how to use the weapons you're requesting.

 

Oh, by the way, we are not talking about Mirage 2000 C anymore...

[Zomba]

This sort of discussion comes up often. The F-14A/B had a long one regarding AIM-120. Seems to fall in three camps; those that want a particular weapon for gameplay purposes knowing it isn't realistic; those only wanting what can be a proven reality; and those that want to prove a fictional reality to justify the weapon.

 

The M2000C discussion has already been done to great length and from what I remember there is no credible source showing that ARMAT was deployed with FAF M2000C (Correct me if I'm wrong). Why can't we be happy with just sticking to reality?