F-15E?

[Harlikwin]

I'll believe it when I see it;) and still no love for the F-15E.:cry:

 

Maybe Cuz its desperately outdated in the context of a modern IADS enviroment?

[Blaze1]

I think it's more to do with the F-35 program consuming a large piece of the budgetary pie. There's still EPAWSS (RWR upgrade) for both the C & E, but again it's up in the air last I heard.

[GGTharos]

It's delayed, but it's coming. It might not be an upgrade but rather a replacement for the C->X, where the E should get the upgrade...unless its role it taken over by the F-35, which would then have to gain nuclear delivery capability if it doesn't have it already.

 

EPAWSS is a lot more than an RWR upgrade ... the entire ECM/CM/RWR system would gain capability and become more of an ISR as well, IIRC.

[Blaze1]

Thanks for the update GG. Yes 'upgrade' isn't perhaps an accurate description, as it's an entirely new system with new capabilities. The Boeing video says it can geo-locate emitters which is a definite step up from the ALR-56, but this is pretty much standard practice with newer systems I think.

[Rainmaker]

The E isnt going anywhere anytime soon, plenty of things in the books that are started and still yet to come. Far from being “outdated” too. Still cant touch the weapons load capabilities and the amount of tonnage they can deliver per fighter outside of a bomber.

[Rainmaker]

The F-15E does seem to have been neglected more than most in the wake of the F-35. The F-15C has received/continues to receive the VSDR, SATCOM, PASS/PAD, Sniper, FPCI and ADCP etc.

 

 

The C was well behind the E, and the E grabbed many of those updates, in some cases first. The radar and JHMCs was probably the biggest difference everyone talked about.

[DeathRaptor5]

I recall talking to a F-15E WSO at the blue angles homecoming show last year and ask him about JHMCS and He said the jets have the software for duel JHMCS but not the funding to make it a reality. He also allowed me to take a peak of the cockpit which I was thrilled.

[Blaze1]

The C was well behind the E, and the E grabbed many of those updates, in some cases first. The radar and JHMCs was probably the biggest difference everyone talked about.

 

The E received Sniper first and when the C followed, it was necessary to introduce the PAD to display the data. The C received AESA and JHMCS before the E and as you say those were significant systems. The E did get an MPD & MPCD upgrade quite a while ago, with the C's VSDR and FPCI being more recent. I'm not sure about SATCOM, but I think the C's are getting/have being getting ADCP ahead of the E's?

 

Another nice upgrade for the E, would be to have the upper CFT stations GPS weapons compatible.

Edited February 8, 2019 by Blaze1

[Blaze1]

I recall talking to a F-15E WSO at the blue angles homecoming show last year and ask him about JHMCS and He said the jets have the software for duel JHMCS but not the funding to make it a reality. He also allowed me to take a peak of the cockpit which I was thrilled.

Glad you had fun DR5. :)

Rear seat JHMCS is another one. The Super Hornet WSO have been getting them:

[Rainmaker]

The E received Sniper first and when the C followed, it was necessary to introduce the PAD to display the data. The C received AESA and JHMCS before the E and as you say those were significant systems. The E did get an MPD & MPCD upgrade quite a while ago, with the C's VSDR and FPCI being more recent. I'm not sure about SATCOM, but I think the C's are getting/have being getting ADCP ahead of the E's?

 

Another nice upgrade for the E, would be to have the upper CFT stations GPS weapons compatible.

 

 

Es have had ADCPs for a long time now. SATCOM as well. First started as converted ACMI pods due to the crappy LOS capability of the radios in places like Afghanistan. Radios were changed out later.

[Blaze1]

Thanks for the info on the 'Es' SATCOM. I was thinking about ADCP II, but perhaps I'm confusing builds. ADCP was introduced with Suite 7C and some 'Cs' were modified for future integration with ADCP II?

[Rainmaker]

Thanks for the info on the 'Es' SATCOM. I was thinking about ADCP II, but perhaps I'm confusing builds. ADCP was introduced with Suite 7C and some 'Cs' were modified for future integration with ADCP II?

 

Don’t have enough SA on what is goin on in the C’s world to know the answers

[RShackleford]

The radar upgrade was doped out as “coming soon” a long time ago. Originally I think the plan was to give the E’s hand me down V1s from the C. At some point in time, in between sourcing funding, the plan changed...which is never out of the norm.

 

I think all MHAFB jets have it, about 1/2 of ops jets at SJAFB (not including FTU jets) have it. APG-82 is really an amazing radar, can't wait to have more of them.

 

The F-15E does seem to have been neglected more than most in the wake of the F-35. The F-15C has received/continues to receive the VSDR, SATCOM, PASS/PAD, Sniper, FPCI and ADCP etc.

 

F-15E has most of that. Don't really see C models flying around with Sniper, though...

 

I think it's more to do with the F-35 program consuming a large piece of the budgetary pie. There's still EPAWSS (RWR upgrade) for both the C & E, but again it's up in the air last I heard.

 

EPAWSS is going to happen, but it is a HUGE modification. It takes a jet out of the lineup for a long time just to put an APG-82 in it, it will likely take the jet out for a much longer time to put EPAWSS in because it basically requires taking the whole jet apart and rewiring everything. Es are for sure getting them, Cs it is still up in the air.

[RShackleford]

Thanks for the info on the 'Es' SATCOM. I was thinking about ADCP II, but perhaps I'm confusing builds. ADCP was introduced with Suite 7C and some 'Cs' were modified for future integration with ADCP II?

 

Don’t have enough SA on what is goin on in the C’s world to know the answers

 

Basically both Cs and Es are going to share ADCP II. Integration should come for both around the same time, depending on 422 TES testing.

[RShackleford]

Another nice upgrade for the E, would be to have the upper CFT stations GPS weapons compatible.

 

That would be cool, but we'd need better engines to safely takeoff in the current AOR carrying 12xGBU-38/54s on the CFTs

[KlarSnow]

Current Strike Eagles just got Aim-9X last year, so thats brand new, JHMCS, MPCD's, and the ADCP have all been around longer than I've been flying em (4 years). Dunno when exactly they showed up.

ADCP II is coming someday about the same time EPAWWS shows up (thats the *two weeks* joke of the Eagle community). Strike Eagles have had Snipers much longer than any C model unit has. All LANTIRN TPOD's have been phased out as of 2016 as far as I'm aware, its all Sniper now

 

Other thing to keep in mind when you are talking about C models is Guard vs Active duty. The guard jets will have a ton of upgrades and things that you may or may not see on Active duty C models, because they have their own pot of money and chain of command to go through to get that stuff done. Instead of having to wait for the Air Force to get around to it.

 

Active duty C models are just now getting Satcom, E's have had them forever (longer than I've been in the jet).

 

No idea what PASS/PAD, FPCI or VDSR are, you'll have to elucidate those acronyms cause I'm not familiar with em, maybe we call them by a different name?

 

APG-82s are the bees knees, best AESA radar out there right now. Big aperture with lotsa power, plus AESA goodness, plus not the developmental nightmare that the APG63vX series was for so long. As far as I'm aware MHAFB is complete, no idea what the ratio of -70's to -82s are, can't say for sure if its 100% or not.

[Rainmaker]

That would be cool, but we'd need better engines to safely takeoff in the current AOR carrying 12xGBU-38/54s on the CFTs

 

 

We flew 12x82’s a little bit for OEF early on, tanks and 3 x 1...that was on the -220 too. I’ve got some really grainy A/A pod footage of a string of all 12 coming off. Didn’t even lock out CFTs. They don’t look great coming off but I knew the wizzo on the jet that dropped on one of those events. They were on “go” pills due to the flying lengths, so he was about as animated as one could be when he got back.

 

Edit: just looked at the clip again...only a ripple of 6. :( Would have been a sweeter story to tell if it was all 12.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Rainmaker

[Blaze1]

I think all MHAFB jets have it, about 1/2 of ops jets at SJAFB (not including FTU jets) have it. APG-82 is really an amazing radar, can't wait to have more of them.

I can imagine. AESA technology makes a big difference with situational awareness, the funny thing is (given this is a sim forum), while it'd be great for DCS to implement AESA versions at some stage for diversity, you'd (if AESA equipped) lose the 'fun/challenge' of managing the various air-to-air modes. When I think of AESA I think of selecting arcade mode in most sims past and present:).

 

F-15E has most of that. Don't really see C models flying around with Sniper, though...

There're Cs flying around with Sniper pods, but I guess they're spread quite thin at the moment. The Cs started to get them in 2015 I think, so Suite 6M.

 

EPAWSS is going to happen, but it is a HUGE modification. It takes a jet out of the lineup for a long time just to put an APG-82 in it, it will likely take the jet out for a much longer time to put EPAWSS in because it basically requires taking the whole jet apart and rewiring everything. Es are for sure getting them, Cs it is still up in the air.

I see, that's a big deal. I never considered the time out of action, but it does make sense now you mention it. The ECS system needs to be modified for APG-63V(2) & V(3) so I'm sure it's the same for the 82(V).

 

 

 

Basically both Cs and Es are going to share ADCP II. Integration should come for both around the same time, depending on 422 TES testing.

I think a few Suite 7C Cs received ADCP II along with the VSDR and a few other goodies for field testing.

 

 

 

That would be cool, but we'd need better engines to safely takeoff in the current AOR carrying 12xGBU-38/54s on the CFTs

That's surprising! 12xGBU-38/54 is only around 7000lbs (excluding wing tanks, 9000lbs), so I'm guessing these limitations are for -220 equipped jets operating from high alt airfields?

Now since you mentioned better engines and we're talking upgrades, may as well throw a pair of GE-132s at the problem.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Blaze1

[Blaze1]

Current Strike Eagles just got Aim-9X last year, so thats brand new, JHMCS, MPCD's, and the ADCP have all been around longer than I've been flying em (4 years). Dunno when exactly they showed up.

ADCP II is coming someday about the same time EPAWWS shows up (thats the *two weeks* joke of the Eagle community). Strike Eagles have had Snipers much longer than any C model unit has. All LANTIRN TPOD's have been phased out as of 2016 as far as I'm aware, its all Sniper now

Thanks, I had assumed the Es received the 9X around the time they received JHMCS, but I've only started getting back into aviation the past few months, so I'm trying to get up to speed on many of the changes.

Regarding the 2 weeks joke, it looks like the Eagle community and the Heatblur community share the same ghostwriter :)

 

Other thing to keep in mind when you are talking about C models is Guard vs Active duty. The guard jets will have a ton of upgrades and things that you may or may not see on Active duty C models, because they have their own pot of money and chain of command to go through to get that stuff done. Instead of having to wait for the Air Force to get around to it.

I think that explains quite a bit. A quick Google search throws up both the Oregon & Florida Guard jets receiving Sniper, this means they also received the PAD display.

 

No idea what PASS/PAD, FPCI or VDSR are, you'll have to elucidate those acronyms cause I'm not familiar with em, maybe we call them by a different name?

PAD/PASS (excluding the actual sniper pod), FPCI, VSRD & FPCDV are all mostly just display upgrades unique to the F-15C/D.

PAD is the (Passive Attack Display) and is used for Sniper video, TEWS display, SIT display and a few others: https://www.ieeinc.com/iee-upgrading-passive-attack-display-pad-f-15cd

 

PASS is (Passive Attack Sensor System), it combines PAD, Sniper, DVR (Digital Video Recorder) to control recorded and live video imagery from various onboard sources and EMD (Engine Monitor Display). The PAD display can also be split into 3 different formats (each format is basically a different way of dividing the display), so for instance you could have Sniper imagery as the primary display in a 6 x 6 inch window, with a column of three 2 x 2 inch windows on the right showing eg, Air-to-Air radar, RWR & EMD data.

 

FPCI is the (Flat Panel Control Indicator) and is basically an updated version of the Navigation Control Indicator (NCI):

https://www.driven-technologies.com/simulated-flat-panel-displays/simulated-military-displays/f-15-simulated-displays/simulated-military-displays/f-15-flat-panel-control-indicator-fpci.html

 

VSRD is the (Vertical Situation Display Replacement), which is used to display radar modes primarily. With it I think there's a change in the attack display format, from the gridded 4 x 4 air-to-air radar display to a format similar to that used in the F-22 & F-35, like a pie slice within a semi-circle. VSRD is for AESA equipped Cs and works hand in glove with ADCP II.

 

There's also FPCDV (Flat Panel Color Display Variant) which is basically an updated MPCD.

 

APG-82s are the bees knees, best AESA radar out there right now. Big aperture with lotsa power, plus AESA goodness, plus not the developmental nightmare that the APG63vX series was for so long. As far as I'm aware MHAFB is complete, no idea what the ratio of -70's to -82s are, can't say for sure if its 100% or not.

The -82(V)1 has a lot of new technology (new in comparison to the APG-77) so I'm not surprised it's beast of a radar. 'Load arcade mode boys!':joystick:

Edited February 15, 2019 by Blaze1

[Blaze1]

We flew 12x82’s a little bit for OEF early on, tanks and 3 x 1...that was on the -220 too. I’ve got some really grainy A/A pod footage of a string of all 12 coming off. Didn’t even lock out CFTs. They don’t look great coming off but I knew the wizzo on the jet that dropped on one of those events. They were on “go” pills due to the flying lengths, so he was about as animated as one could be when he got back.

 

Edit: just looked at the clip again...only a ripple of 6. :( Would have been a sweeter story to tell if it was all 12.

 

Rainmaker, what do you mean when you say 'they didn't even lock out CFTs'? And with the MK82s not looking great coming off, are you talking about them wobbling off the racks?

[Rainmaker]

Rainmaker, what do you mean when you say 'they didn't even lock out CFTs'? And with the MK82s not looking great coming off, are you talking about them wobbling off the racks?

 

 

CFTs have manual lockouts so you can keep them from taking gas during a power-off refuel if you want. We can do it when you don’t want to fill the jet comepletely full of gas (lower takeoff weight, shorter training missions when flying external tanks, etc). When the refuel is over, you reset the locks so they can take gas during IFR, etc.

 

With reference to the bombs, yes.

[Rainmaker]

I can imagine. AESA technology makes a big difference with situational awareness, the funny thing is (given this is a sim forum), while it'd be great for DCS to implement AESA versions at some stage for diversity, you'd (if AESA equipped) lose the 'fun/challenge' of managing the various air-to-air modes. When I think of AESA I think of selecting arcade mode in most sims past and present:).

 

 

There're Cs flying around with Sniper pods, but I guess they're spread quite thin at the moment. The Cs started to get them in 2015 I think, so Suite 6M.

 

 

I see, that's a big deal. I never considered the time out of action, but it does make sense now you mention it. The ECS system needs to be modified for APG-63V(2) & V(3) so I'm sure it's the same for the 82(V).

 

 

 

 

I think a few Suite 7C Cs received ADCP II along with the VSDR and a few other goodies for field testing.

 

 

 

 

That's surprising! 12xGBU-38/54 is only around 7000lbs (excluding wing tanks, 9000lbs), so I'm guessing these limitations are for -220 equipped jets operating from high alt airfields?

Now since you mentioned better engines and we're talking upgrades, may as well throw a pair of GE-132s at the problem.

 

 

ECS is being upgraded with the mod as well as the LCS (liquid coolant for the radar transmitter, cooled by ECS).

 

Radar wiring mods are centralized to the forward half of the airplane for the most part, the upgrades to the RWR/ICS will be a lot more invasive which means a lot more work througout the entire aircraft

[Blaze1]

You learn something new every day.

 

It's interesting to see the changes that have happened to stores carriage since the F-15E was introduced. 12 of the big CBUs (SUU-30 and SUU-6X) could previously be carried with wing tanks, until they realised there were store to tank collisions on occasion. 4 GBU-10s on the CFTs was also used during ODS, but later revoked because of seeker damage to the trailing bomb. I'm sure there's other examples as well and this isn't unique to the F-15E.

[KlarSnow]

Ah, k that's all just the big MFD screen and display upgrades.

 

Sorry to bust the bubble but USAF F-15E's can't carry JDAM on the cheek stations, they aren't 1533 wired :( Only the 6 lower stations, Station 5 (centerline) and 2/8 (wing pylons) are wired up for smart weapons.

 

That's surprising! 12xGBU-38/54 is only around 7000lbs (excluding wing tanks, 9000lbs), so I'm guessing these limitations are for -220 equipped jets operating from high alt airfields?

Now since you mentioned better engines and we're talking upgrades, may as well throw a pair of GE-132s at the problem.

 

No joke the greatest impact on performance I've ever seen was actually from GBU-12's. carrying 4 on one side is a ton of drag. They have a much bigger impact on your takeoff roll and flight performance just due to the extra drag than carrying 5 GBU-31's does.

[Blaze1]

Ah, k that's all just the big MFD screen and display upgrades.

 

Sorry to bust the bubble but USAF F-15E's can't carry JDAM on the cheek stations, they aren't 1533 wired :( Only the 6 lower stations, Station 5 (centerline) and 2/8 (wing pylons) are wired up for smart weapons.

 

 

 

No joke the greatest impact on performance I've ever seen was actually from GBU-12's. carrying 4 on one side is a ton of drag. They have a much bigger impact on your takeoff roll and flight performance just due to the extra drag than carrying 5 GBU-31's does.

Yep, that was the upgrade I was dreaming about here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3791998&postcount=1143

Most of the foreign Strike Eagles have them. While I'm dreaming, forget about upgrading and just get the equivalent to the F-15SA, with EPAWSS and GE-132s.

 

That stores load you mentioned must be the draggiest combination at present. ODS was even worst with a 12 pack of SUU-30s, as each side had almost twice as much drag and then there's the desert heat!:shocking: