ECM or R-73s?

[OnlyforDCS]

If they're main purpose is to delay a launch, which we believe it is, then they clearly don't work and aren't worth choosing over the archers.

 

 

Yes the ironic thing is that with BVR missiles being only effective far below burn through ranges anyway, the ECM is currently not very useful at all...

[holimoli]

Usually ECM is a must but given the current state of ERs you might be better off with some extra 73s ;)

[blkspade]

In the Eagle, burn through is 21nm vs flankers and eagles and ~27nm vs fulcrums. If you should happen to spot an Eagle at 40,000ft and want to climb to engage, you can (and likely will) be killed by a 21-25nm shot. The ET can score a kill vs this high eagle from about 18-22nm if you have speed and altitude with them in burner. NCTR works at 24.9nm against anything not jamming. Now using radar will hint as to you being Russian, but if you avoid this and use ECM you buy ~3nm before the eagle driver at altitude has to be conscious of an ET by knowing you're Russian. All these only matter for those bold enough for the head to head approach.

[pr1malr8ge]

Hard choice there cyber.. Since I don't fly the flanker I can only tell you what I think in regards to flying against them..

 

While My burn through on ECM is 21nm head on. I have seen a tail chase ecm emmiting target fail to lock at 10nm which if they did not have ecm on at that time they would have died. 50kalt m2+ gives me a HIGH %pk shot on sub 10nm tail chase targets.

Think of it this way. If you're running from me and are ground hugging and I lock you at 10nm and start diving [to keep lock] I will be firing at @ around 8nm due to my GS vs yours. In that version unless I allready expelled my aim7s I will be firing those and compared to the aim120 in those senrious I have yet to see the aim7 miss. Say it does miss. I will be firing another missile at less then 4 nm and it will not and by the time it hits I probably will be @ sub 20k and with in aim9 range.

 

What I'm saying with me at least if you have ecm on and I can't lock you in a tail chase you just saved your life because at 50k ft and my speed I don't have time to lock you any less then 10nm due to the radar cone passing over you and you disapearing from my radar and not worth nosing over as that is risky. I then just carry on my merry way diverting to keep from over flying you and putting you in my 6o'clock position and jamming an et/r77 up my tail pipes.

 

 

[update to my own thinking. People have mentioned not being able to lock in TWS, and while I'm not sure if I have tried locking in RWS mode as I normaly am in TWS even when I plan to use aim7s. Humm will have to try just while in RWS to lock. You may ask why am I locking a target in TWS when using aim7s. This is for pre fire lock so as not to "warn" my target of the impending fire. once target is bugged in tws I will just either switch to rws which switches lock to STT or bug target again which switches to STT]

Edited December 14, 2015 by pr1malr8ge

[blkspade]

Medium PRF usually solves that problem.

[pr1malr8ge]

Medium PRF usually solves that problem.

 

Generally in med prf if I'm that close.. I have had multiple times been unable to Lock a target that is cold. If they turn into the flank or head on never have the issue of locking them.

[ShuRugal]

To give a direct answer to the OP's question: I'd rather have the extra 2 R-73s. Radar and ECM modeling in the sim are currently so simplistic that it really doesn't make a difference. ECM burn-through occurs between 30 and 50 km, which is too far away to be useful in transitioning to the merge. All ECM in DCS does is make you easier to spot and force Russian radars out of TWS.

[0xDEADBEEF]

Guys I've been reading this thread with very high interest. May I ask you that you please state which plane you are talking about!? Since I haven't flown with most of you, I got no idea which plance you fly, and if one is talking about F15 and one about Su27 it is unnecessarily hard to keep track of what you are talking about. THANK YOU!

 

 

I personally opt for the R73, because i still got a lot to learn before I introduce jammers, and I dislike using them in a useless way without even knowing.

[Frostie]

There is no right or wrong choice other than which suits the way you approach engagements. There is more than one way to skin a cat just as there are several ways to apply the Flanker on the battlefield, with or without Jammers. The main thing is to not be predictable, so many pilots have a set way of flying and once read can easily be interpreted to a point where you can tell the actual pilot your flying against just by their flight profile.

If every Flanker on a server flies the same or in a similair fashion against Eagles it makes it a hell of a lot easier for them especially the astronauts, my personal fave target. :D

[ShuRugal]

Guys I've been reading this thread with very high interest. May I ask you that you please state which plane you are talking about!?

 

the guys talking about shooting AIM-120 and AIM-7, and give their units in feet and nautical miles are Eagle drivers.

 

the guys using metric units and talking about R-27s, R-73s, and jamming pods are Flanker drivers.

[pr1malr8ge]

 

I personally opt for the R73, because i still got a lot to learn before I introduce jammers, and I dislike using them in a useless way without even knowing.

 

If you're fresh and just learning then read this thread

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=150315

 

While I don't agree with the guide for reasons of realism, how ever for this game/sim it is the way to play..

 

As another member has stated. if Units of measurements are stated in imperial then they most likely are flying the eagle.

 

if they are in metrics then they most likely are flying a RU either su27 or mig29.

 

I think the best advice I can give you, "if you're new to this and have no prior knowledge of a2a combat" is to not Press into the heart of the engagements. Rather stay back and let a lone target come to you. This will make him more likely to make a mistake. Don't try and get the kill no matter what. Since this will lead inevitably to you dying more then you getting kills.. It truly is better to run and stay alive. What this does it let you learn what to do. As you learn more and able to fight closer while staying alive you can then start pushing in further.

 

Ohh and get TACVIEW. it's a must on figuring out what happened. If you don't have it just for warning in some servers like the 104th they do not allow direct export for tacview to record the flight. So after you leave you need to go to replay in the main menu and replay that flight. It will then export it to tacview for debriefing.

Edited December 16, 2015 by pr1malr8ge

[0xDEADBEEF]

If you're fresh and just learning then read this thread

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=150315

 

 

I'm not lacking information (although you're pointing towards good and valuable info!). I'm still progressing with situational awareness. I would recommend every beginner to read info about jammers, but leave them in the depot until you are able to build up a solid situational awareness. When I was fresh on the 27 i would simply forget I got jammers on, or even earlier didnt even know where the indicator light for the jammers was (didn't even know if they were on or not). They are just another layer of complexity, while you still learn how to use radar. I think I would be ready enough now to employ jammers, but after all I'm currently having a lot more fun leaving them at home and employ tactics that don't rely on jamming but benefit from the two extra 73s. Aerial Combat is just such a complex thing that takes time to learn, and Jammers are not a system you have to master first. Of course knowing what they are and what they are not is important. That's why I'm following this thread with great interest, even if I don't employ jammers at all.

 

I also think I am intelligent enough to distinguish between imperial amraam pilots and metric archer pilots, not stating the plane still ruins the readability of the thread, or less drastically put, stating the plane would improve the readability with reasonably little effort.

[pr1malr8ge]

I'm not lacking information (although you're pointing towards good and valuable info!). I'm still progressing with situational awareness.

 

Hard to tell what level of proficiency some one is at. By your statement of progressing with S/A then my advise would probably still be of help towards your learning.

 

Best of luck.

 

P.S. While I can see your desire for stated plane. Unfortunately, this is the internet and people will short hand everything and either expect or just don't care if someone knows what they are referring too.

[*Rage*]

Simples. If you anticipate its gonna be long range single target BVR engagements then take the ECM. If its duck and dive target of oppurtunity engagements then the 73s. You can often tell by the mission thats in rotation and the numbe of players on the server.