Radar, Missiles and Chaff ...

[Rlaxoxo]

Quick observation ...

 

Did you guys notice that if you fire a missile sometimes you lose a lock on the guy?

(Edit: I mean losing "Radar" lock not the missile lock while you still have the guy locked up on the radar but the radar it self will lose a lock)

 

I had it happen to me lots of times and after watching bunyap video on mirage I think I'm convinced

 

 

Apparently when the target you're locking chaffs you have a chance to lose a lock ether that or it's something other at play

 

I also think the Super 530 is really easily spoofed by chaff

 

What do you think people?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Rlaxoxo

[Jansgi]

Quick observation ...

Did you guys notice that if you fire a missile sometimes you lose a lock on the guy?

 

If you fire the missile while in TWS you lose the lock. M-2000C can't guide missiles in TWS. After you are in TWS you need to lock again to go into STT and after that the missile will track after fired.

[jojo]

It's not only Super 530D, if You Can try AIM-7M and R-27(E)R

[Rlaxoxo]

If you fire the missile while in TWS you lose the lock. M-2000C can't guide missiles in TWS. After you are in TWS you need to lock again to go into STT and after that the missile will track after fired.

 

I'm 100% in Single track mode every time

[Rlaxoxo]

It's not only Super 530D, if You Can try AIM-7M and R-27(E)R

 

But does your radar lose the Single track lock on the target when your missile goes for chaff?

[Ktulu2]

Would be great if chaffs started having an effect on radars :) But I highly doubt it is simulated

[Rlaxoxo]

Would be great if chaffs started having an effect on radars :) But I highly doubt it is simulated

 

Sure feels like that right now

[nomdeplume]

Don't forget about the doppler notch. The radar will filter out returns which are 'stationary' i.e. only approaching the jet as fast as it's flying. This is so your display is not covered in reflections from the ground. It's what enables the "look-down, shoot-down" capability - otherwise your radar looking down would see just a sea of returns.

 

A side-effect of this is that if an aircraft manages to stay 'stationary' with regards to your jet, either by flying completely vertical or - more commonly - by flying perpendicular to your radar beam, it will also be filtered out as its speed is too low.

 

Since this effect is common knowledge, the first thing to do when locked by an enemy pulse-doppler radar, is to put it "on the beam" (at 3 or 9 o'clock) and dive to get lower than the enemy, so as to force its radar into look-down mode, hence breaking the lock when you get filtered out.

 

This may be what you're seeing.

[Rlaxoxo]

Don't forget about the doppler notch. The radar will filter out returns which are 'stationary' i.e. only approaching the jet as fast as it's flying. This is so your display is not covered in reflections from the ground. It's what enables the "look-down, shoot-down" capability - otherwise your radar looking down would see just a sea of returns.

 

A side-effect of this is that if an aircraft manages to stay 'stationary' with regards to your jet, either by flying completely vertical or - more commonly - by flying perpendicular to your radar beam, it will also be filtered out as its speed is too low.

 

Since this effect is common knowledge, the first thing to do when locked by an enemy pulse-doppler radar, is to put it "on the beam" (at 3 or 9 o'clock) and dive to get lower than the enemy, so as to force its radar into look-down mode, hence breaking the lock when you get filtered out.

 

This may be what you're seeing.

 

Thanks for the info, I've heard about notching before a friend of mine explained it to me but not in this detail tho so I thank you for expanding my knowledge a bit more but I don't think that's is the issue in this particular case.

 

I mean sure it might have happen before but this lock issue sometimes occurs when I'm tracking after the target and he's running from me with no course changes.

 

And it doesn't even have to be a missile fired off

 

I can approach this guy from his 6 for few minutes and almost randomly the lock is gone, I haven't shoot a missile or anything.

 

Just after 20 or so seconds of lock the lock is gone.

 

I made this thread thinking it might be because the targeted (locked) plane is dumping chaff so I wasn't sure.

 

I might have miss worded my self here in the title for that I do apologize but yea ...

 

This is what I'm talking about, anyone have ideas and did this happen to you guys as well ...

 

Thx

[jojo]

When you're flying behind your target at the same speed, the closing speed is 0, it's kind of the same as notching.

[Rlaxoxo]

When you're flying behind your target at the same speed, the closing speed is 0, it's kind of the same as notching.

 

I don't think so because radar is still scanning right and left so he isn't notching the beam

 

In any case this happens when I'm going to the Merge in a head on as well so yea

[PiedDroit]

When you're flying behind your target at the same speed, the closing speed is 0, it's kind of the same as notching.

Not really, the target will not be filtered in that case.

The filter will remove targets that are seen as stationary relatively to the ground, not those seen as stationary relatively to your A/C, there is no reason to do so.

[Rlaxoxo]

I just went and did little testing in the game and realized that sometimes if you have both 60 - 60 Radar scaning bars selected you sometimes lose the lock.

 

I think its due to how much area the radar has the scan and how slowly the data updates so when target moves to much out of the area that i was suppose to be you just lose the lock.

 

I tried using 30-30 scan bar cycle and so far no problems I even shoot a couple of missiles on A-10's while they were evading and dumping chaff I maintained the lock and missiles lost the lock.

 

I think this might be it

[LuSi_6]

when you lock a target in STT there is no scan at all. your Radar antenna will only focus on your Target, no scanning. At least this is what it *should* do. maybe we found a bug?

[GGTharos]

Not really, the target will not be filtered in that case.

The filter will remove targets that are seen as stationary relatively to the ground, not those seen as stationary relatively to your A/C, there is no reason to do so.

 

Is a blind speed for SOME radar sets (if you're a 27S or 29A you have one of those), but not applicable to more modern radar sets.

[Gunnergolly]

Definitely a problem here, i generally have a high success rate of hitting my first target with the Super 530.

 

However after locking his wingman up with a STT lock as soon as i press the trigger and my second 530 leaves the rail the radar instantly looses it's STT lock and returns back to a TWS lock.

 

Is this happening to everybody else with their second 530 shot ?.

 

Thanks.

[Gunnergolly]

Please could somebody confirm that in the current beta the instant loss of my STT lock is normal behavior as soon as i pull the trigger to launch my second Super 530 ??.

[jojo]

I don't think so...

 

What is the target's aspect angle and relative altitude (look up/ down) ?

[OldE24]

I think i have seen this also but i have not tested thought it was just a guy notching and what, but i think it could be launching 2 missles at the same time i'm gonna go try maby you can only have 1 active missile at a time?

[PiedDroit]

Please could somebody confirm that in the current beta the instant loss of my STT lock is normal behavior as soon as i pull the trigger to launch my second Super 530 ??.

This might just be bad luck, I often lose the lock too, shooting or not (heck, I even had the 530D shooting by itself, happened to me two or three times).

I found that sometimes the only way to get a target (displayed on the scope) locked was to use the RDO button, because the lock button would refuse to lock anything.

[OldE24]

i tested alittle on intercept and cant get it to do it.......i manuvering targets with limited radar controls right now make it difficult....in the future will get better i'm sure.

[Gunnergolly]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Just been testing again, i tried three different scenarios this time against an AN-26 (Head on/Tail/and beaming) and all at the same relative altitude..... i didn't realize it at first but the AN-26 was dumping chaff.

 

Anyway i locked the AN-26 up with the correct STT indications in my HUD and fired off the first missile and then deliberately broke the radar lock.

 

Waited a few seconds whilst the first missile cleared the area and then locked up the second missile again with an STT lock. As soon as i pressed my trigger the circle in the square disappears which made me think that i had lost the STT lock. However i waited as the missile appeared to be tracking correctly and sure enough it homed straight into the AN-26.

 

I had recorded tracks of the above but for some reason they didn't record my HUD indications, which would have saved me all this typing !!.

 

So it seems that even through i lose my STT circle as soon as i launch the second missile, the radar is still actually in STT mode.

 

Strange that you don't see the same ??.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Gunnergolly

[PiedDroit]

So it seems that even through i lose my STT circle as soon as i launch the second missile, the radar is still actually in STT mode.

 

Strange that you don't see the same ??.

I think that little circle is a launch cue for the 530D (probably indicating where the seeker of the missile is, just like with the Magic).

So if the little circle disappears it only means that you don't have a 530D left (that's maybe why you had it disappearing on second launch).

There is no indication of STT / TWS on the HUD. The best way to check is to look on the HDD, PID = TWS, PIC = STT.

 

edit: just tested, I confirm all this (in bold)

Edited January 1, 2016 by PiedDroit

[Gunnergolly]

Maybe your correct about the circle disappearing after launching the second missile is a cue telling me that i have no 530's left ???..

 

It's just not what i'm expecting to see... i'm expecting to see that circle in my HUD which tells me that i have a good STT lock right up to impact.

 

Haven't read that in the manual, but i might have missed it.... i'm still learning with this module.

 

edit .... Thanks for the conformation.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Gunnergolly

[PiedDroit]

It's just not what i'm expecting to see... i'm expecting to see that circle in my HUD which tells me that i have a good STT lock right up to impact.

That little circle is almost certainly your missile seeker.

For a good launch you also need to look at the distance scale on the right of the HUD.