TEWS question

[Capn kamikaze]

I've noticed several times now that my TEWS has stopped showing I'm being illuminated by a Su-27 or Mig-29, and so if the TEWS is right then any R-27R/REs that are heading my way should no longer be being guided, yet a few times now I've been hit, even on some occasions after seeing the Su/Mig get hit aswell as them beaming and diving away and me going beyond their gimbal limits

 

So, is it the TEWs dropping a threat too soon and I am being illuminated or is the AI cheating and guiding regardless sometimes if it gets within a mile or 2?

[Cik]

there's a blindspot on the top and bottom of your jet. are they on the top or bottom of your jet (or close?)

 

if not, then maybe. i've never had issues with any RWR, let alone the -15's, though.

[Capn kamikaze]

When it has happened it has been in various orientations, some head on, some to the side, some to the belly.

 

The thing is, I've seen the other aircraft get hit, and it clearly be a kill, and even once saw it be one of the kills where it immediately explodes, and disappears from the F10 view before even hitting the ground.

 

Next time it happens I'll save a track, the last time (tonight) it was a head on hit, from about my 1 oclock, I even spotted the missile just as it was about to hit, and the TEWS had been silent for about 2-3 seconds, and I'd seen the bandit get hit, the only reason I had turned back towards the bandit was because I knew he was going to lose his lock on me given the situation, and I wanted to just keep a visual on him, he dropped off my TEWS (he was trying to evade my AIM-120) and a second or so after he dropped off I saw the flash and the smoke trail start, and then I got hit, and it was not a proximity hit, it was right to the face (cockpit).

 

Now the way I see it, if a SARH missile loses its illuminating radar for what ever reason, the missile should at best just fly straight, at worse randomly fly off in any direction, not keep on tracking a to an intercept point, the only thing it could do is maybe track to where it last saw you at, but not one that is corrected for anything you do after its illuminating radar stopped guiding it.

[Cik]

as far as i know SARH missiles should just fly ballistically after losing track, making no corrections. even if they were programmed to fly to last known target location and then detonate the chances of you actually getting hit by it except maybe in the case where it loses track 1 second before intercept is basically 0%

 

just because i've never encountered the bug doesn't mean it doesn't exist FYI, though yeah track would be nice.

[Nerd1000]

To clarify, this is against just one enemy AI, correct?

 

The AI does cheat while using missiles in several ways. Two I've noticed are that they can get a radar lock the instant you're inside the gimbal limits of their radar, and they can lock and fire rear-aspect only heatseekers like the R-3S in head-on passes.

[GGTharos]

There are a couple of possibilities:

 

The way radar memory is modeled in fc jets right now actually lets missiles guide while the radar is in mem mode (meaning target list for any reason). This gives the missile an extra couple of seconds of guidance.

 

The other possibility is that your jammer was on and the missile homed in on it.

[Stuge]

F-15C RWR detects only +/-45 degrees in the vertical, the cones higher and lower than this (projecting up and down) are blind zones. These zones tilt as your aircraft tilts. Thus, if you bank 90 degrees and start turning away from a threat, it will drop at some point, even if you are still being tracked. To counter this, you can momentarily roll back wings level (for a co-altitude threat) to check if you are still being locked.

[Capn kamikaze]

To clarify, this is against just one enemy AI, correct?

 

The AI does cheat while using missiles in several ways. Two I've noticed are that they can get a radar lock the instant you're inside the gimbal limits of their radar, and they can lock and fire rear-aspect only heatseekers like the R-3S in head-on passes.

 

Yes, it was against one AI.

[Capn kamikaze]

There are a couple of possibilities:

 

The way radar memory is modeled in fc jets right now actually lets missiles guide while the radar is in mem mode (meaning target list for any reason). This gives the missile an extra couple of seconds of guidance.

 

The other possibility is that your jammer was on and the missile homed in on it.

 

I'm careful with using my jammer, and pretty much only use it when there are SAM threats.

[Capn kamikaze]

F-15C RWR detects only +/-45 degrees in the vertical, the cones higher and lower than this (projecting up and down) are blind zones. These zones tilt as your aircraft tilts. Thus, if you bank 90 degrees and start turning away from a threat, it will drop at some point, even if you are still being tracked. To counter this, you can momentarily roll back wings level (for a co-altitude threat) to check if you are still being locked.

 

I understand this, but after my target was toast I would expect him to no longer be illuminating me.

[GGTharos]

Mem mode. Never ignore ANY missiles, you don't know what's in the mix, and DCS had its own quirks like mem mode.

[Capn kamikaze]

Fair enough, until you'd mentioned it I'd never even known DCS does that.

 

To me that seems like a major bug, does it effect all SARH missiles, or only certain SARH missiles?

 

I've no issue with IR and active missiles getting a kill after their launcher is destroyed as they're obviously fire and forget, but this seems particularly bad as far as bugs go, it's effectively making missiles like the R-27R/RE active terminal homing in a way, infact it's even worse than that, as at least with an active missile your TEWS would let you know it was there.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Cap'n kamikaze

[Stuge]

Yeah I have have cases where the attacker is hit or destroyed but his SARH still manages to hit me. There may be a few seconds' delay before the missile stops tracking, and even once it stops tracking the missile will fly the last calculated intercept course and may still hit!

[GGTharos]

It's just imperfect implementation, a retrofit to old code. In fact it's better that it exists than if it didn't.

 

It'll get taken care of some time in the future I'm sure, along with a lot of other system and missile level stuff.

 

Just don't ignore any missiles, ever, for any reason :)

 

Fair enough, until you'd mentioned it I'd never even known DCS does that.

 

To me that seems like a major bug, does it effect all SARH missiles, or only certain SARH missiles?

 

I've no issue with IR and active missiles getting a kill after their launcher is destroyed as they're obviously fire and forget, but this seems particularly bad as far as bugs go, it's effectively making missiles like the R-27R/RE active terminal homing in a way, infact it's even worse than that, as at least with an active missile your TEWS would let you know it was there.

[Beamscanner]

F-15C RWR detects only +/-45 degrees in the vertical, the cones higher and lower than this (projecting up and down) are blind zones. These zones tilt as your aircraft tilts. Thus, if you bank 90 degrees and start turning away from a threat, it will drop at some point, even if you are still being tracked. To counter this, you can momentarily roll back wings level (for a co-altitude threat) to check if you are still being locked.

 

IRL you would still see a powerful emitter that happens to be in your "blind zone", it'd be quieter as its not coming from the most sensitive FOV of your antennas, but being a close/powerful signal that's locking you, it'd come in just fine. The "blind zone" isn't completely "blind", it's just not as sensitive.

 

I've covered this in depth on another thread. This needs to be fixed.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=158152