No one escapes in front of the Russian aircraft

[ttaylor0024]

^This.

 

I fly high and fast because high mach = survivability, IMO. Sit up there at 35k and mach 2.2...then drop down to 20k and mach 2.0...I think I hit the pressure limit! :lol:

 

Except high mach at 35k ft is ~300kts IAS, meaning you have little to no maneuverability if a missile is launched at you. You can't get to Mach 2.2 with external stores, and even if you tried you'd be out of fuel in less than 30min. In the off chance you sometime make it to mach 2.2, now you're at an extreme disadvantage in maneuverability because your turning radius is the size of Texas at those speeds, so evading a missile from a head on shot becomes a dangerous game in the corner coffin. Not only that, but especially with most aircraft at a low altitude nearly every missile you will fire will be in look down mode, meaning they're even easier than they already were to evade.

 

The highest I go is about 20k feet. It gives you a good middle ground between range and maneuverability. You can easily out range 5k ft F-15s for the first jousting shot, as well as split-S, get down to notch, etc. After I get brought down to a lower altitude I usually stick to about 5k feet unless driven to the deck.

 

Well why are you going 1v4 to start with?

 

Because they're at 35k ft and I'm hiding in the mountains with 6 AMRAAMS... :D But in all seriousness, I did take on 3 yesterday in the same scenario. Saw them coming at me, dropped into the mountains and maneuvered around a bit, then turned around in their direction low level, came over the ridge and was on their 9 o'clock at 3 miles.

Edited January 28, 2016 by ttaylor0024

[Cik]

the problem exists irrespective of numbers.

 

the people in this thread just say "approach high and fast and you can win" when you can't, really.

 

in a many v many environment, the sukhoi loses flat out. in a 1v1 environment it also loses.

 

even with an un-even playing field kinetically, the missile is bad enough that it neutralizes almost any advantage except perhaps a straight tail aspect (and then you have to be pretty close) the only kills i have ever gotten against an opponent which is even a touch defensive is in a straight tail aspect, actually. i think the chaff problem goes away when you are very close, not that that's particularly useful.

[ttaylor0024]

the problem exists irrespective of numbers.

 

the people in this thread just say "approach high and fast and you can win" when you can't, really.

 

in a many v many environment, the sukhoi loses flat out. in a 1v1 environment it also loses.

 

even with an un-even playing field kinetically, the missile is bad enough that it neutralizes almost any advantage except perhaps a straight tail aspect (and then you have to be pretty close) the only kills i have ever gotten against an opponent which is even a touch defensive is in a straight tail aspect, actually. i think the chaff problem goes away when you are very close, not that that's particularly useful.

 

The only advantages the Sukhoi has over an Eagle is IRST, and WVR dogfighting, all of which require surviving BVR, which is the fundamental reason the Eagle was built.

[Sweep]

the problem exists irrespective of numbers.

 

the people in this thread just say "approach high and fast and you can win" when you can't, really.

 

in a many v many environment, the sukhoi loses flat out. in a 1v1 environment it also loses.

 

even with an un-even playing field kinetically, the missile is bad enough that it neutralizes almost any advantage except perhaps a straight tail aspect (and then you have to be pretty close) the only kills i have ever gotten against an opponent which is even a touch defensive is in a straight tail aspect, actually. i think the chaff problem goes away when you are very close, not that that's particularly useful.

 

You don't win, but you can survive...Or at least I think you can.

 

I'm sure you understand this, but let me say it anyway: The Flanker guys need to get creative if they want to win. Its hard to get creative when you have practically no SA and an ineffective WEZ, but thats that (for now).

 

I'd kill for a modern Flanker - But the odds of that happening are quite low I'm afraid.

[Cik]

you can survive, but that's not a particularly high bar. it's a fighter airplane; the purpose is to actually destroy the enemy. you could survive by just putting SAMs all over the mountains and not even taking off.

 

in this case, 'getting creative' only really equates to hugging the dirt and praying some head-down eagle driver flies over you, itself a vain hope. usually there are enough eagles that as soon as you pop your head up they'll see you immediately, and then you're an AMRAAM pincushion.

 

i don't ask for equality necessarily, because ARH is always an advantage in any case, but the ability to actually theoretically get kills at long range would be nice. without at least some aircraft threatening people at long range the NOE surprise! approach doesn't really work that well.

 

in this case i don't think there's anything else 'creative' that you can do. i've tried many approaches, including massive detours to the side of the combat to try to open another front, very high altitudes, very high speeds, etc. but no matter where i am, where they are, how high i am, how high they are, the missile simply never hits the target, making my entire effort almost hopeless.

 

edit: i should mention that this is a complaint about the ER alone, i've gotten many kills in these situations with ETs of course.

 

honestly at this juncture i'm starting to wonder if not even equipping the ERs is worth the 50-100 km/h it'd give me of extra speed at military power.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Cik

[ttaylor0024]

you can survive, but that's not a particularly high bar. it's a fighter airplane; the purpose is to actually destroy the enemy. you could survive by just putting SAMs all over the mountains and not even taking off.

 

in this case, 'getting creative' only really equates to hugging the dirt and praying some head-down eagle driver flies over you, itself a vain hope. usually there are enough eagles that as soon as you pop your head up they'll see you immediately, and then you're an AMRAAM pincushion.

 

i don't ask for equality necessarily, because ARH is always an advantage in any case, but the ability to actually theoretically get kills at long range would be nice. without at least some aircraft threatening people at long range the NOE surprise! approach doesn't really work that well.

 

in this case i don't think there's anything else 'creative' that you can do. i've tried many approaches, including massive detours to the side of the combat to try to open another front, very high altitudes, very high speeds, etc. but no matter where i am, where they are, how high i am, how high they are, the missile simply never hits the target, making my entire effort almost hopeless.

 

edit: i should mention that this is a complaint about the ER alone, i've gotten many kills in these situations with ETs of course.

 

honestly at this juncture i'm starting to wonder if not even equipping the ERs is worth the 50-100 km/h it'd give me of extra speed at military power.

 

Except a Flanker simply isn't equipped to defeat an Eagle BVR. Let's say missiles work well and you can hit people at 30 miles with the ER and AMRAAM, the Flanker will still lose that fight, meaning you'd have to get creative to win. No one strategy will always work, you just have to out smart your opponent. The MiG-21 is much more underpowered than the flanker and people still do well on the 104th by being creative. I flew it all last year and had success flying in ways Id have never flown other aircraft, but I had no choice.

[Cik]

not 1v1, certainly, but if the ER actually gains the ability to hit the enemy, the enemy will actually have to go defensive. at that point you can actually press the fight and kill them if you outnumber them. in it's current state, you cannot, as the number of flankers shooting at an eagle means almost nothing. even if i had two flankers vs one eagle, and i engaged him and then pressed with my number 2, the chances of actually getting a kill are still pretty close to 0%.

 

if the missile actually worked, that would not be the case.

 

edit: basically, BVR tactics would actually function if the missile hit anything

 

okay so maybe i should explain this better.

 

in DCS, why does the AMRAAM work as a weapon system? the reason is not exactly what you might expect.

 

is it because of it's long range? no. it's range is actually fairly pitiful

is it because of the ARH? kind of, it does give you an advantage, but not a killer one.

 

it's actually because the missile's homing is good enough that it is actually scary. basically, you have to be able to rely on your ability to kinetically defeat the missile, which means you have to be careful in how you commit to fights. you cannot simply bulldog your way in and have a pretty high chance of survival. you cannot rely on chaff to defeat a missile, let alone several. so it actually does it's job of making the enemy commit conservatively.

 

that gives the eagle a sort of 'hidden advantage' where as long as the eagle could theoretically have fired on you, you have to be extraordinarily careful about how close you are to it, meaning in most circumstances you cannot ever press for a kill with assurances that you will not suddenly explode.

 

the ER does no such thing of course. it's so vulnerable to chaff that even assuming you continue almost straight into merge and just spam chaff you can defeat more than one aircraft's worth of missiles. if missiles were made more effective at homing, it would of course effect the AMRAAM however comparatively less, because the AMRAAM already REQUIRES kinetic defeat. the ER does not at all. in the minds of the majority of the people playing on the server, a ^29 spike shooting at you provokes no fear. and they are correct, a sukhoi launching is mostly a nonthreat except from very close range (where, in any case he should just use an archer and you'll never know you've been fired at, anyway)

 

and that is why the ER is a terrible, terrible missile. not necessarily because it's a SARH, or because it's range is too low, or whatever.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Cik

[blkspade]

Yes this is how it should be, getting into bad positions should result in defeat more often than not, but in the current state of DCS it is so easy to trash a close range SARH turn hot, fire an active and win. The advantage of out maneuvering your opponent is negated by ineffective missiles.

 

It's at a point now and has been for a while that if you acquire a bandit and sneak on him using EOS to get within 10km, it is near suicide to switch on your radar and fire SARH because the unsuspecting opponent will spam chaff and point his nose directly at the incoming threat to get an ARH off and win the day. This imo is pure horse and makes a mockery of what we are trying to do with this sim. This isn't a one off situation this is happenening frequently, there is no respect for missiles being fired.

 

Winchester basically beat me to it, but anyway. If you fire at a bandit he absolutely has to maneuver, at which point its going to be 1 of 3 ways. Break away, break into or split S. If you didn't completely jump him, you are already cued up for his shot anyway. If you did jump him (and didn't opt for an ET), attempting to spot the launch is like missile defense 101. The real Eagle hotas is setup where you can manuever, hit AACQ, and enable CMs pretty much simultaneously. So you can do that while cutting across the missile's flight path on your way to the beam. If you get picked up in the process, you'll be fired upon as a part of the defensive process. Its more about forcing a reset than killing, but you'll likely get killed by an ARH missile if you don't break off. Immediately disengaging just means running home or to your nearest friendly flight. It is easy enough to outrun a flanker if he doesn't have any ETs for you to worry about.

[Frostie]

I see the problem of this topic. But not of this 10KM range EOS ambush. What should he do? If he does not turn into you he is going to get killed. So he turns in for a last ditch maneuver. And while he is doing that why not fire back when he is able to lock you in his defensive maneuvering using vertical scan. If he does not kill you or get you defensive in that maneuver he is going to be death anyway.

By doing this last ditch maneuver he puts himself in a vulnerable position. Most of the time he will not be able to defeat a second missile. Also if you don't want to be found because of your missile trail. Fire and crank. Don't keep going straight. Sorry... in this situation it's all your own fault if you get shot. You come from a superior position and still get killed. And i know from experience that it's hard to dodge the second ER coming to you or even lock up the attacker after that 10KM shot. 90% of the time it go's terribly wrong if you get ambushed like that, even if you get the lock/missile warning. It's a combination of the maneuver and the chaff that saves him the other 10%. And yes if you get the trick yo can decrease the chances you get killed in a 10KM attack. But you will still be killed a lot by such ambushes. I fly the flanker myself. And the only reason i don't get as much kills as in the F-15 is not even the bad missiles. It's the lack of situational awareness i have in it and the lack of acceleration like the F-15 has after a defensive maneuver.

You don't understand the point which is that the defensive guy shouldn't be more successful than not. Don't think I don't know how to approach a defence of this situation, it goes without saying to expect an incoming ARH if you try and SARH an F-15 that is in a bad position. The ease to turn the worst position you could be in into a winning one is too high.

 

Only the other day I was flying home climbing upto 10,000m when I was locked on my six and launched at very close, below, a simple split s and chaff/flare defeated any missile the Flanker had and I was able to splash him too easy. The likelyhood of getting hit in this situation is so low that the guy who wins the maneuver battle loses because of terrible missile performance, you've got to wonder why RUAF don't fit more ET and less ER if performance from well inside the supposed NEZ range is so bad from SARH missiles.

Surely they know something we don't.

 

It's great we have F-15 pilots coming here and saying everything regarding chaff is fine and dandy as they sit with their 120c which ED rules the presumption that it is virtually chaff immune. I'd love ED to open that up and make it terrible against chaff also, then we'd hear some tub thumping. Think it's bad having to close to 7nmi to make the kill well it gets worse.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Frostie

[ttaylor0024]

not 1v1, certainly, but if the ER actually gains the ability to hit the enemy, the enemy will actually have to go defensive. at that point you can actually press the fight and kill them if you outnumber them. in it's current state, you cannot, as the number of flankers shooting at an eagle means almost nothing. even if i had two flankers vs one eagle, and i engaged him and then pressed with my number 2, the chances of actually getting a kill are still pretty close to 0%.

 

if the missile actually worked, that would not be the case.

 

edit: basically, BVR tactics would actually function if the missile hit anything

 

okay so maybe i should explain this better.

 

in DCS, why does the AMRAAM work as a weapon system? the reason is not exactly what you might expect.

 

is it because of it's long range? no. it's range is actually fairly pitiful

is it because of the ARH? kind of, it does give you an advantage, but not a killer one.

 

it's actually because the missile's homing is good enough that it is actually scary. basically, you have to be able to rely on your ability to kinetically defeat the missile, which means you have to be careful in how you commit to fights. you cannot simply bulldog your way in and have a pretty high chance of survival. you cannot rely on chaff to defeat a missile, let alone several. so it actually does it's job of making the enemy commit conservatively.

 

that gives the eagle a sort of 'hidden advantage' where as long as the eagle could theoretically have fired on you, you have to be extraordinarily careful about how close you are to it, meaning in most circumstances you cannot ever press for a kill with assurances that you will not suddenly explode.

 

the ER does no such thing of course. it's so vulnerable to chaff that even assuming you continue almost straight into merge and just spam chaff you can defeat more than one aircraft's worth of missiles. if missiles were made more effective at homing, it would of course effect the AMRAAM however comparatively less, because the AMRAAM already REQUIRES kinetic defeat. the ER does not at all. in the minds of the majority of the people playing on the server, a ^29 spike shooting at you provokes no fear. and they are correct, a sukhoi launching is mostly a nonthreat except from very close range (where, in any case he should just use an archer and you'll never know you've been fired at, anyway)

 

and that is why the ER is a terrible, terrible missile. not necessarily because it's a SARH, or because it's range is too low, or whatever.

 

ARH is a MASSIVE advantage.

 

Let's say it's 1v1, both missiles have a max range of 30 miles. You could fire first with your ER all you want, but you have to maintain lock to get a kill. That's the key. You fire first, I get a launch tone so I decide to fire right after (in reality I'd go for first shot, but this is worst case scenario opening up a BVR engagement). We both crank to keep eachother on the gimbal limits, however our missiles would still find their target without more maneuvering. Once my missile goes pitbull, I can notch, break your lock, then press hard while you try to evade my missile because at that point you had 2 options: Try to keep lock on me, which wont work 99% of the time because I'd go full defensive to break it as I mentioned, or you'll go defensive once you realize you've been shot at (at which case you'd be at a disadvantage because you wouldn't know until way after I've shot) in which case I'm not worried about your fangs at all. While I press you will most likely have notched me and my missile (which is unlikely both happen at the same time because of two different radar systems in two different locations), and I'll be full burning towards your location scanning, and the minute I find you again you have another present coming your way. This continues until I'm on your 6 or you're dead.

 

That hidden advantage you're talking about IS ARH in a nutshell, you just don't know until it's already halfway there, or worse. Within 10 miles it's a monster as well because I don't even need a radar lock to get a kill anymore, I can just point and shoot at you. It's to the medium range threat as the R-60 is to the short range. There have been times where I'm purely defensive, evading missiles and turned my head to see the bandit a few miles behind me. I'd just drop below the next mountain peak if I could find one, reverse course, pop up and launch an AMRAAM maddog in the direction of the enemy and a few seconds later I'd notice I got another kill.

 

Like the ER, the range on the AMRAAM right now is pitiful. Like the ER right now, the AMRAAM is spoofed with loads of chaff... either that or I'm an expert at evading them, which would bring up the question as to why anyone else couldn't.

 

As someone who flies the F-15 in DCS, the only time I get any sort of spike in heart rate is if I see another F-15 on RWR, or if I'm outnumbered at all. I don't press bad situations (normally). In no way should you let pilot skill become involved in air combat, if you have you're not pressing your advantage, and you're making mistakes.

[Cik]

what you say is true, but like i said, if i outnumber you and my missile actually works i can kill you.

 

right now if i had 4 flankers and you had one eagle, you could "win" that engagement. if the missiles theoretically hit something, a numbers advantage on the side of the sukhois actually means something, right now it does not.

 

in a 2v1 scenario i have 2 sukhois, i set up a trail, i force you defensive and then my 2 presses high and fast and just keeps shooting.

 

in that case you'd actually have to defend, as it is now the missile is a nonthreat pretty much regardless of numbers being fired at you, or the speed of the firing platform.

 

as it is right now you could probably press through my ERs and fire and win 2v1.

[Frostie]

ARH is a MASSIVE advantage.

 

Let's say it's 1v1, both missiles have a max range of 30 miles. You could fire first with your ER all you want, but you have to maintain lock to get a kill. That's the key. You fire first, I get a launch tone so I decide to fire right after (in reality I'd go for first shot, but this is worst case scenario opening up a BVR engagement). We both crank to keep eachother on the gimbal limits, however our missiles would still find their target without more maneuvering. Once my missile goes pitbull, I can notch, break your lock, then press hard while you try to evade my missile because at that point you had 2 options: Try to keep lock on me, which wont work 99% of the time because I'd go full defensive to break it as I mentioned, or you'll go defensive once you realize you've been shot at (at which case you'd be at a disadvantage because you wouldn't know until way after I've shot) in which case I'm not worried about your fangs at all. While I press you will most likely have notched me and my missile (which is unlikely both happen at the same time because of two different radar systems in two different locations), and I'll be full burning towards your location scanning, and the minute I find you again you have another present coming your way. This continues until I'm on your 6 or you're dead.

 

That hidden advantage you're talking about IS ARH in a nutshell, you just don't know until it's already halfway there, or worse. Within 10 miles it's a monster as well because I don't even need a radar lock to get a kill anymore, I can just point and shoot at you. It's to the medium range threat as the R-60 is to the short range. There have been times where I'm purely defensive, evading missiles and turned my head to see the bandit a few miles behind me. I'd just drop below the next mountain peak if I could find one, reverse course, pop up and launch an AMRAAM maddog in the direction of the enemy and a few seconds later I'd notice I got another kill.

 

Like the ER, the range on the AMRAAM right now is pitiful. Like the ER right now, the AMRAAM is spoofed with loads of chaff... either that or I'm an expert at evading them, which would bring up the question as to why anyone else couldn't.

 

As someone who flies the F-15 in DCS, the only time I get any sort of spike in heart rate is if I see another F-15 on RWR, or if I'm outnumbered at all. I don't press bad situations (normally). In no way should you let pilot skill become involved in air combat, if you have you're not pressing your advantage, and you're making mistakes.

 

This is all irrelevant, of course ARH is superior to SARH, everyones Aunt knows how it works, where the issue arises is with tactics, you can adapt to the advantages of ARH with multiship tactics and quite frankly these don't work anymore.

[GGTharos]

A 2v1 of flankers vs one eagle will easily defeat the eagle - why? Because 120's suck (... I had to get that in there of I'm to fulfill the singularity directive). Even if they didn't, there are enough tactics out there to allow an approach with two aircraft that won't get either one killed.

 

In a 2v1 you don't need BVR at all, nor do you need to be threatened by the 120's. If that's happening to you, your 2v1 tactics need a review.

If 120's were up to the nastiness they are up to in RL, you'd have a harder time employing those tactics but they would still be valid.

 

The point Ragnarok made here is simple: There's no BVR and there are no BVR tactics. The chaff issue is just one part of the problem, because it's not as if anyone can actually employ their in-game missiles at a respectable range right now anyway.

[Cik]

you don't need BVR?

 

what?

 

what else are you supposed to use? play visual in the mountains until everyone runs out of fuel?

[GGTharos]

My point is that in DCS the missile ranges are so short that with a 2v1 you may as well just apply some notch-to-the-merge tactic and go all R-73 on your intended target.

 

Again, I suggest that your technical knowledge and tactics that uses such knowledge may nee some review. There are a lot of possibilities and applications of this knowledge and tactics arising from it.

 

It's not my intent to diminish any of the issues presented here, but rather to point out to you that 120's are not particularly difficult to defeat. They just require some semblance of real work.

 

The complaint here is that SARH do NOT require this work.

 

you don't need BVR?

 

what?

 

what else are you supposed to use? play visual in the mountains until everyone runs out of fuel?

Edited January 28, 2016 by GGTharos

[blkspade]

what you say is true, but like i said, if i outnumber you and my missile actually works i can kill you.

 

right now if i had 4 flankers and you had one eagle, you could "win" that engagement. if the missiles theoretically hit something, a numbers advantage on the side of the sukhois actually means something, right now it does not.

 

in a 2v1 scenario i have 2 sukhois, i set up a trail, i force you defensive and then my 2 presses high and fast and just keeps shooting.

 

in that case you'd actually have to defend, as it is now the missile is a nonthreat pretty much regardless of numbers being fired at you, or the speed of the firing platform.

 

as it is right now you could probably press through my ERs and fire and win 2v1.

 

You know the Eagle's radar along with 120s can simultaneously attack 6 targets right. Flying in trail would be the worse possible way to engage an Eagle with 120s that could work at range. Unless you're more than 5nm apart, but then you're too far apart to be an effective unit. That's basically pitbull on lead, and cheap shot on the wingman if you're too close. Number 2 would be denied the ability to press. Vertical or lateral separation that denies the Eagle the ability to keep you both on the scope at the same time is what you need.

[Ragnarok]

The point Ragnarok made here is simple: There's no BVR and there are no BVR tactics. The chaff issue is just one part of the problem, because it's not as if anyone can actually employ their in-game missiles at a respectable range right now anyway.

 

it seems to me to be desirable image which should be obtained that in BVR combat the eagle has an "altitude and speed factor" advantage! Flanker to survive AIM120 must must have lost height or losing speed on the stall, and Eagle to survive may retain both factors in conditions R/L 90deg aspect +/- 10-15deg which are hand in hand with the use of ARH and phase pitbull, and rapid transformation in attack. If this is the basic logic and the idea ED for Eagles BVR superiority, whether this is the reason for the change of logic of missiles?

 

Looking at the changes logic AI and his behavior than before, I think Yes!

[Sweep]

My point is that in DCS the missile ranges are so short that with a 2v1 you may as well just apply some notch-to-the-merge tactic and go all R-73 on your intended target.

 

You'll also be much lighter in that configuration, so merging low level would be quite the fun time.

 

Hey look kids, its a 30 DPS nose track, fox 2 inbound! :megalol:

 

Now I want to go try that on 104th...

[GGTharos]

Well if we talk about realism, sure; you'd never get the first shot in a 'fair fight' against a 120 platform, you'd have to do a lot more work to survive than the 120 platform, etc.

 

But at the same time you should be able to apply all those realistic tactics that we do know about. If the 120 platform is flying 'fat dumb and happy' then superior tactics should defeat it.

 

it seems to me to be desirable image which should be obtained that in BVR combat the eagle has an "altitude and speed factor" advantage! Flanker to survive AIM120 must must have lost height or losing speed on the stall, and Eagle to survive may retain both factors in conditions R/L 90deg aspect +/- 10-15deg which are hand in hand with the use of ARH and phase pitbull, and rapid transformation in attack. If this is the basic logic and the idea ED for Eagles BVR superiority, whether this is the reason for the change of logic of missiles?

 

Looking at the changes logic AI and his behavior than before, I think Yes!

[Ragnarok]

What I promise is that I will faithfully and truthfully convey all information as soon as I receive them, without bias. I will not talk much before that. I will be with patience.

[Cik]

But at the same time you should be able to apply all those realistic tactics that we do know about. If the 120 platform is flying 'fat dumb and happy' then superior tactics should defeat it.

 

right hey there we go

 

they don't

 

fix pls!

[winchesterdelta1]

You don't understand the point which is that the defensive guy shouldn't be more successful than not. Don't think I don't know how to approach a defence of this situation, it goes without saying to expect an incoming ARH if you try and SARH an F-15 that is in a bad position. The ease to turn the worst position you could be in into a winning one is too high.

 

Only the other day I was flying home climbing upto 10,000m when I was locked on my six and launched at very close, below, a simple split s and chaff/flare defeated any missile the Flanker had and I was able to splash him too easy. The likelyhood of getting hit in this situation is so low that the guy who wins the maneuver battle loses because of terrible missile performance, you've got to wonder why RUAF don't fit more ET and less ER if performance from well inside the supposed NEZ range is so bad from SARH missiles.

Surely they know something we don't.

 

It's great we have F-15 pilots coming here and saying everything regarding chaff is fine and dandy as they sit with their 120c which ED rules the presumption that it is virtually chaff immune. I'd love ED to open that up and make it terrible against chaff also, then we'd hear some tub thumping. Think it's bad having to close to 7nmi to make the kill well it gets worse.

 

I know that you know how to approach such situation. What i'm trying to say is that the example you gave is mostly because of own failure and not from the ER's. Also we eagle pilots don't come her to say that chaff is fine and dandy. We actually acknowledge that it isn't fine and dandy. But most examples we see here can be easily worked around. The bad ER is a very serious issue. But don't think the F-15's have the same annoying thing with the AIM-120C engaging Flankers. We have to come within 8 miles to kill a okay pilot. And yes mostly it will be a kill because it's so stupidly close and the AIM-120C seeker is better than the ER in this game. But i have seen Flankers defeat 8 AIM-120C from within 12 to 2 miles. And there where not even big mountains to hide behind. YOu know how they defeat them? By making crazy high G maneuvers while losing a lot of speed. This will break the lock of the plane in a lot off cases and for sure makes the AIM-120 break lock. But for those targets i have a AIM-7 ready. Is this a exploit? Who knows... I just try to think this guy wants to survive.

 

We are all in the same boat here. We just have to wait till all go's better. But i fear even after that the same people will still complain. Because a lot of them don't want to adapt to certain situations and just let it go.

[Exorcet]

I haven't been able to keep up with this entire thread, but there has been some mention on chaff probability of attracting missiles being too high.

 

I can only guess at how it's coded, but if we want to put a limit on chaff effectiveness we could change chaff from generating a probability of attracting a missile to reducing the probability of the aircraft attracting the missile.

 

Ie, right now say 1 bundle of chaff has 50% probability of spoofing a missile. Change the behavior so that instead it makes the missile's chance of tracking the target 1-x. x can be anything. Then you can place a lower limit on the chance of tracking the aircraft. Say it's .6. If x is .4, then dropping anymore than 1 bundle of chaff at a time is pointless. The missile will never have less than .6 chance to track the aircraft. This doesn't put any limit on pilot behavior and doesn't change the offline game either.

 

Just an idea.

[pr1malr8ge]

Nothing against Ragnarok, but I can only understand about 10% of what he is saying..

 

Rag, are you typing in a translating program or are you actually typing your self? My guess is a translator.

[Ragnarok]

Nothing against Ragnarok, but I can only understand about 10% of what he is saying..

 

Rag, are you typing in a translating program or are you actually typing your self? My guess is a translator.

 

google translate

I apologize to everyone. I also write 10% of what I have to say, for the same reason :(