Landing the Dora: What do to after the wheels touch the ground?

[ekg]

The landing thread has been usurped by take-off posts so I figured I'd make a thread about how to stop the dora in one piece when on the runway.

 

I'm able to touch ground at or slightly below 200 km/h. The plane then wants to go left. If I try to use wheel brake or rudder to make it go right it causes the plane to flip and the pilot dies.

 

Would be nice to get a detailed version of what successful pilots do (i.e. at speed x apply brake / rudder / aileron / elevator this way).

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

The landing thread has been usurped by take-off posts so I figured I'd make a thread about how to stop the dora in one piece when on the runway.

 

I'm able to touch ground at or slightly below 200 km/h. The plane then wants to go left. If I try to use wheel brake or rudder to make it go right it causes the plane to flip and the pilot dies.

 

Would be nice to get a detailed version of what successful pilots do (i.e. at speed x apply brake / rudder / aileron / elevator this way).

 

If you pass the rw threshold at 200 KIAS, cut the throttle, pull back on the stick trying to touch down in three points, and, as you're on ground, hold the stick back to lock the tailwheel. Minor rudder inputs will then be required to stay on the runway.

 

If you flare to much and start climbing, hold the stick still, until the aircraft falls again in it's three wheels, which is way better than enter purposing by giving stick....

 

Always remember: In the Fw190 the only way to have directional control on ground to go straight is by locking the tailwheel because the rudder becomes almost totally infective at slower speeds and power settings, so PULL THE STICK BACK until the aircraft loses enough speed or you want to start turning to leave the rw. Use toe brakes then, and neutral stick, and pull it back again to go straight.

 

It's piece of cake once you get it :-)

Edited January 26, 2016 by jcomm

[Sporg]

As an addition to jcomms advice, I got better at landing both the 190 and the 109 when I followed the advice only to keep it straight with rudder inputs, and not touch the brakes.

Just let it roll the speed off.

[Grundar]

As an addition to jcomms advice, I got better at landing both the 190 and the 109 when I followed the advice only to keep it straight with rudder inputs, and not touch the brakes.

Just let it roll the speed off.

 

Yep, there is plenty of space on the runways in the game at the moment, plenty of space to gently let her down and roll her out - you don't need to hit the very front of the runway. Not sure how I'm going to fare when WW2 maps come out with their much shorter runways - guess I'll be on those brakes quick :P

[ekg]

I managed to get a a successful landing! No veering off the runway either!

 

The trick appears to be to lock the tail wheel prior to touching ground or just the moment touches the ground. This appears to be the crucial piece. If it's not locked in time then it will go out of control. And you'll go too fast to use wheel brakes to fix it.

 

Brakes are a big no-no until speed goes under 100 KIAS. I'll have to practice some more :)

[Little_D]

Hi ekg,

 

watch here:

 

 

regards

 

Little_D

[Weegie]

Now that LittleD has posted what IMHO is the best of all the instructional videos on landing the Dora.

 

I can post up another that helped me with both TO & Landings. I have not found 2 better videos than the one above (Little D's, and the one below)

 

[ame]

[/ame]

 

I'm also working on one but my landings are no where near as polished, straight or bounce free

[Weegie]

Oh and after the wheels touch

 

Stick back

 

Watch the turn indicator like a hawk & counter it with stabbing rudder input

 

If she threatens to wing over opposite stick can sometimes work

 

No brakes until under 100kph & even then VERY gently until the speed is well down

Edited January 27, 2016 by Weegie
more info

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Oh and after the wheels touch

 

[...]

 

Watch the turn indicator like a hawk & counter it with stabbing rudder input

 

[...]

 

 

I would actually avoid, by all means, being tempted to look inside and into the instruments, even less the rather "nervous" turn coordinator during takeoff or landing.

 

Always look outside, and find there, and the further away ( ahead ) the best, choose your visual references and make your inputs to overcome any unwanted tendencies in roll or yaw / direction while on ground...

Edited January 27, 2016 by jcomm

[Weegie]

I hear what you say jcomm & understand the idea of looking outside.

 

Now I tend to rely on it less but at first for me rate of descent & turn indicator were invaluable crutches.

 

Maybe its just me, I am only a "virtual" pilot & not a good one, but unless the swings are caught early the chances of successful countering with rudder are much reduced.

 

God forbid we were all the same

 

I'll get ma coat

[Little_D]

Now that LittleD has posted what IMHO is the best of all the instructional videos on landing the Dora.

 

Hi Weegie,

 

thank you for the nice words.

 

regards

 

Little_D

[ekg]

Thanks for the help guys! I can now land the Dora :)

 

The trick was locking the tail wheel and not using wheel brakes. Doing that makes it easy to keep the plane straight on the runway.

 

The brakes are very dangerous at high speeds. Even just under 100 km/h the tail wheel will lift since the wheels become like a pivot when the brakes are on.

[Sporg]

I can post up another that helped me with both TO & Landings. I have not found 2 better videos than the one above (Little D's, and the one below)

 

 

I'm also working on one but my landings are no where near as polished, straight or bounce free

 

The video is good, but fails to mention an important thing:

Always trim to the current configuration.

The 190 tends to get nose heavy with flaps and gear, so adjust for that on landing.

Likewise, adjust the nose a bit down after retracting gear and flaps at take off.

 

Neutral controls helps making everything easier. :)

 

Thanks for the help guys! I can now land the Dora

 

The trick was locking the tail wheel and not using wheel brakes. Doing that makes it easy to keep the plane straight on the runway.

 

The brakes are very dangerous at high speeds. Even just under 100 km/h the tail wheel will lift since the wheels become like a pivot when the brakes are on.

 

You're welcome.

 

It's nice to see when tips helps. :)

Edited January 28, 2016 by Sporg
Edited for clarification. :)

[Little_D]

The video is good, but fails to mention an important thing:

Always trim to the current configuration.

The 190 tends to get nose heavy with flaps and gear, so adjust for that on landing.

Likewise, adjust the nose a bit down after retracting gear and flaps at take off.

 

Hi Sporg,

 

i think you missunderstood something in the video. I said for my controllsettings i need a trimm of -0.7 to - 1.0 with flaps and gear out, by 220Km/H and -2m/s of decending. So if someone use different settings he need to find out witch trimm he need. on the start you are right, but this is also in my video for taking of in the FW 190 :) and i trimm here on the runway to -0.7 to -1.0. and this is the same trimm i use for landing, but this time it has nothing to do with the 3/4 holdingpoint for the tailweel lock. its hold the nose up from going straigt into the sky, after the weels lift off. For climb i use zero trimm. Also in level flight between 400Km/H - 500Km/H -0.7 to -1.0 is the range you need, depending on your conteollsettings.

 

regards

 

Little_D

[Sporg]

Hi Sporg,

 

i think you missunderstood something in the video. I said for my controllsettings i need a trimm of -0.7 to - 1.0 with flaps and gear out, by 220Km/H and -2m/s of decending. So if someone use different settings he need to find out witch trimm he need. on the start you are right, but this is also in my video for taking of in the FW 190 :) and i trimm here on the runway to -0.7 to -1.0. and this is the same trimm i use for landing, but this time it has nothing to do with the 3/4 holdingpoint for the tailweel lock. its hold the nose up from going straigt into the sky, after the weels lift off. For climb i use zero trimm. Also in level flight between 400Km/H - 500Km/H -0.7 to -1.0 is the range you need, depending on your conteollsettings.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

Hi Little_D

 

Maybe I should have been more clear, it was not your video I commented on, but the other one Weegie posted.

In that one nothing was mentioned about trim (even if it was very instructive otherwise).

 

As I recall, your video was very good. :)

 

Sorry for confusion. :)

[Little_D]

Hi Little_D

 

Maybe I should have been more clear, it was not your video I commented on, but the other one Weegie posted.

In that one nothing was mentioned about trim (even if it was very instructive otherwise).

 

As I recall, your video was very good. :)

 

Sorry for confusion. :)

 

Hi Sporg,

 

than i missunderstood you :doh:, this damn language problem :)

 

regards

 

Little_D

[Sporg]

Hi Sporg,

 

than i missunderstood you :doh:, this damn language problem :)

 

No, think it was my fault actually. :)

Edited my post to make it more clear which video I was talking about. :)

[Weegie]

Interesting Sporg

 

I've actually found trimming neutral to slightly nose heavy works better for me than trimming for slightly tail heavy.

 

I'll need to revisit it and try some back to back landings with the trim first slightly tail heavy, then slightly nose heavy to compare.

 

Being a clumsy sausage finger finger type though a lot of the finer points on trimming are completely lost on me..............like all the fuss about trimming for take off. I tried the nose heavy trim at take off and found that it made no difference to my lift offs. Now on take off I simply leave the trim at default and only start to trim on the climb out

[Weegie]

So my pathetic efforts

 

Warning may induce extreme nausea in those skilled in the art.

 

Made to show that even a ham fisted, sausage fingered Klutz can land the Dora with a bit of practice

 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQqi_9SvjZ4&spfreload=10[/ame]

[Sporg]

So my pathetic efforts

 

Warning may induce extreme nausea in those skilled in the art.

 

Made to show that even a ham fisted, sausage fingered Klutz can land the Dora with a bit of practice

 

Not too bad, I'm not sure I'm doing much better. ;)

 

Btw, to your earlier comment about trim, I don't trim tail heavy, just trim to neutral as best I can. :)

[Weegie]

You're very kind Sporg, your comments are appreciated.

 

Thanks for putting me right on the trim. I either trim neutral or adjust the trim to fly stick close to center on the approach. Obliviously this is for a shallower approach. If approaching steep I'd definitely trim neutral

[Weegie]

Put in another comment about rolling on the deck & corrected a spelling mistake

 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZG4xOCVob0&spfreload=10[/ame]