F22 is the ruler...???? or it will be?

[Ardillita]

The F22 has been receiveing lots of "propaganda". For sure has and will have extremly powerfull capabilities but. Is it logical to go around saying that the F22 has not equal or rival? Since "eternity" every time a country develops a weapon, it´s rivals always tend to develop a counterpart, and the history teached us that has never existed a weapon powerful enough to let anybody says "we have no rival". As I read and read this seems to be the situation with the f22. The only thing the F22 can be as maximun will be the best fighter for a couple of years , no more than that, after that, for sure there will be an equal or even superior counterpart (specially if we think about the russians who always have proved that USA is far from being superior to them)

 

We have lots of example: The assault rifle, the "COLT" (who much of us probably used a lot in counterstrike jajaja) was advertised by it´s developer as a superior rifle... Those colt didn´t worked in vietman because of... water, dust and rust... American ended useing all the ak-47 they could get from the enemy everytime they had the oportunity.

in ww1 and 2: how many times the airforce from USA and allies were suposed to have the best fighters (airplanes)? The germans far proved they could develop better planes.

Looking around we can find lots of examples of "superior" weapons being adverticed as that but in practice they were far from that or in the action some secret counterpart appered in scene and beat them.

 

There are many articles about imprvements in the flanker series that will easily make them a match to the f22. Also, a little research shows great things like "plasma stealth" a great concept, cheap (makeing the russian style) and very effective.

 

 

And article:

 

 

Russian Low Observability Technologies Data Released

 

Russian Scientists Created Revolutionary Low Observability

Technologies

 

Moscow, January 20. Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS information

agency

 

Research team of the Recearch Center named after M.V. Keldysh

has developed new technologies allowing dramatic decrease in

aircrafts' radar observability. Russian approach to low

observability (LO) technologies is completely different from US

Stealth and offers complete furtiveness of the protected object

at a significantly lower price. An exclusive interview about

these technologies was conducted by Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS

with director of the Center, academic of Russian Scientific

Academy Anatoliy Korteev.

 

As academic explained, American approach to LO (Stealth

technology) applied on B-2, F-117A, and fifth generation fighter

F-22 "Raptor" is based on the following principles. The

airframes of these aircrafts are designed to minimize their

radar cross section (RCS), avoid all possible elements of the

structure, which could reflect electromagnetic radiation. In

order to minimize reflected radiation radio absorbing materials

(RAM) are also applied to the surface of the structure. The main

drawbacks of the Stealth technology are its negative effects on

the flight and agility characteristics of the stealth aircrafts.

 

Russian scientists approach the issue from the other direction.

They proposed to create a plasma formation around protected

object, which prevents radars from seeing it. Thus,

aerodynamical characteristics of the plane itself do not suffer.

Without interfereing with technical characteristics the

artificially created plasma cloud surrounding the plane

guarantees more than hundred times decrease in its

observability.

 

The physics of plasma protection can be described as following.

If an object is surrounded by a cloud of plasma, several

phenomenas are observed when the cloud interacts with

electromagnetic waves radiated by enemy radar. First, an

absorption of electromagnetic energy occurs in the cloud, since

during plasma penetration it interacts with plasma charged

particles, pass onto them a portion of its energy, and fades.

Second, due to specific physical processes, electromagnetic wave

tends to pass around plasma cloud. Both of these phenomenas

results in dramatic decrease of the reflected signal.

 

Static and flight experiments proved the effectiveness of this

technology. The first generation devices, producing plasma field

surrounding an aircraft and decreasing reflected signal were

created in the Center. Later, a possibily of creating second

generation advanced systems (capable of not only decreasing

reflected signal and changing its wavelength, but also producing

some false signals) was discovered. Such systems significantly

complicate determination of actual aircraft's speed, its

location and leads to development of completely new approaches

to LO provision, unachievable to conventional Stealth

technology. Furthermore, the weight of the systems developed in

Russia do not exeed 100 kg, and power consumption ranges from

kilowatts to tens of kilowatts.

 

Advances in development of the third generation LO systems

allowed to clear the systems of first and second generation for

export, commented academic Anatoliy Korteev.

 

In my opinion, don´t believe in the "superior" F22, just think as PROBABLY the first of its kind (or the most expensive), but be pretty sure that when the F22 raptor comes aperational, he will not rule the skies as many are advertiseing.

[Pilotasso]

Its recieving alot of negative propaganda too. Why did you duplicate the threads?

[Ardillita]

Its recieving alot of negative propaganda too. Why did you duplicate the threads?

 

Did I? If yes, sorry, but the this thread has punctual examples, and an interesting article.

Again, if the thread is repeated, wasn´t my intention

[S77th-konkussion]

Ya-a-a-w-w-wn...

[britgliderpilot]

In my opinion, don´t believe in the "superior" F22, just think as PROBABLY the first of its kind (or the most expensive), but be pretty sure that when the F22 raptor comes aperational, he will not rule the skies as many are advertiseing.

 

Having looked at the basic principles involved, the age of all the aircraft and technologies involved, the development budgets, and the technical know-how involved in making it all . . . . . I must respectfully declare that I believe your opinion to be complete tosh.

 

 

But hey, that's just my opinion, right? ;)

 

 

The Plasma Stealth Article has caused oh-so-many little flame wars . . . . it really belongs with the list of articles that claim America lost twenty B52s and five B2s over Serbia, and that Elvis was taken by space aliens . . . .

 

 

There should be a rule that all discussion of the Raptor on these forums is banned . . . . grin.

[Ardillita]

Having looked at the basic principles involved, the age of all the aircraft and technologies involved, the development budgets, and the technical know-how involved in making it all . . . . . I must respectfully declare that I believe your opinion to be complete tosh.

 

 

But hey, that's just my opinion, right? ;)

 

 

Well, your injustifed reply seems a complete tosh to me. My opinion was supported by clear examples, you should learn to do that.

 

Many bugs in FC are a tosh, and the developer team seems to kepp makeing them, right? So why can´t i make a tosh of my opinion? jajajaja

 

Sorry, a little sarcastic

[britgliderpilot]

Well, your injustifed reply seems a complete tosh to me. My opinion was supported by clear examples, you should learn to do that.

 

Many bugs in FC are a tosh, and the developer team seems to kepp makeing them, right? So why can´t i make a tosh of my opinion? jajajaja

 

Sorry, a little sarcastic

 

 

The Clear Example in question is based on an article of highly dubious accuracy. Actually look into the physics and investigate whether such technology is possible, and what the side-effects are.

 

A single press release does not count as gospel ;)

[hitman]

Elvis was taken by space aliens . . .

 

He wasnt taken away by space aliens he died on the throne. He would have been better off if he WAS kidnapped by aliens. God is a lawrence Welsh fan.:helpsmilie:

[Ardillita]

You're completely incorrect with your assessment of the Colt rifle Ardillita. Your whole second paragraph is completely incorrect. While I won't go into detail, I'll explain it succinctly.

 

The rifle was developed for use with a certain kind of gunpowder. The powder was clean burning so the military was told that the rifle didn't get as dirty as older rifles when the same number of rounds went thru it. This was misconstrued as you didn't ever have to clean the rifle. The rifle was given to troops without cleaning kits for the first year it was in service. The military switched gunpowder whose residue would gum up the inside of the gun. So now you have a new rifle, that the troops never cleaned and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

Once the powder problem was sorted out the military issued cleaning kits with manuals that were in comic book form to the troops. The issues with the Colt rifle were pretty much a thing of the past. ...

 

 

I kenew this, but was an example, nevertheless, I guess you will agree that with or without the cleaning kit, the Colt didn´t worked as it was adverticed agains its counterpart the AK, wich since the point of view of the Colt developers was inferior.. But again, was just a plain rude example. Your explanation can´t be more accurate, but the point still is there: it was not the superior weapon as adverticed.

 

And the plasma thing: Im not a phisics experts, are any here? And more... all this issues of course are high tech things, If I or you or the ED developers team would know how a plasma ECm works, well, wouldn´t we sell the patents? jajajajajajaja

 

And that still is not the point. The point is clear: the suposed to be invincible F22, for sure won´t be, since for sure we can say that in some place there are counterparts already develped or in development.

[hitman]

 

We have lots of example: Those colt didn´t worked in vietman because of... water, dust and rust... American ended useing all the ak-47 they could get from the enemy everytime they had the oportunity.

 

That is an incorrect assessment, as which the average soldier used their M-14 until their respective units made them change weapons. And to say that the M-16A1 was a crap weapon is utter nonsense too. Just like the BAR or the stoner MK1 (I think it was the MK1) you had to simply "CLEAN" your weapon when you see it starts to foul or you clean it religiously. If you were to do that then your rifle would be "extremely" reliable. Colt makes them good for the cost.

[GGTharos]

And that still is not the point. The point is clear: the suposed to be invincible F22, for sure won´t be, since for sure we can say that in some place there are counterparts already develped or in development.

 

 

Pure hogwash. There are no counterparts, and there won't be any for a while.

 

Plasma stealth is a nice concept, but it's a little ... difficult to apply :)

[hitman]

And if you think the Raptor is all that, check this out.

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/Airplane_Drag_Race/?p=43&y=737

[Guest IguanaKing]

The M-16 has better armor penetration than the AK and is just as reliable as long as you follow a common-sense maintenance program. Maintenance is extremely easy...just thump the rear takedown pin with your knuckle, grab the charging handle, and pull out the bolt-carrier group. Anybody who can't handle that routine shouldn't be carrying a rifle at all. :D

[hitman]

How many threads do we need devoted to the F-22A??? How bout making a forum JUST for this aircraft! Well call it the flame tavern.

[Pilotasso]

Pure hogwash. There are no counterparts, and there won't be any for a while.

 

Plasma stealth is a nice concept, but it's a little ... difficult to apply :)

 

yeah, if it wasnst bad enough to make enough space for fuel tanks and fit missiles internaly for stealth now you must have a giant ballon of reserve gas to make all that plasma trail arround the aircraft wich will completely turn to garble any radar including its own! :megalol:

 

...aaaaand radio doesnt work as well, so your blind and deaf, but heat seeking missiles will find you very yummy. How sexy is that?:blink:

 

Cant belive there are still people arround comparing real operational aircraft to sci fi mambo-jambo wich isnt even on blue print, neither will be.

[hitman]

Now we have that out of the way, heres a picture of a flying taco.

[eric37a]

Pilotasso's right, even if such "Plasma" stealth exists, I can't begin to imagine the amount of energy needed to maintain a constant field or even a brief one. From an energy/cost standpoint alone, I don't see how it is effective.

 

As long as we're dreaming, why not take the energy spent making "plasma" and create a magical force field that is impervious to impact... Blah... Next topic.

[chrno120]

Boy, everybody loves the F-22, yeah, sure blame me for replying on 2 out of 3 threads about it

 

We can't even "play" with the F-22 yet, not even the Su-35 or the MiG-29SMT :joystick:

 

Maybe we should just concentrate on our flyables :D