Gyro or Fixed for air to ground rockets (s24's)?

[exnihilodub]

Hi all, I was trying to learn each weapon by referencing to the manual, and came across a problem while trying rockets (s-24's).

 

the manual states we should use "gyro" for all ground targets. It also says that "gyro" uses all 4 parameters, and "fixed" uses 2 out of 4, so my thought was that fixed is more limited in accuracy but is more stable. contrary to this, it seems like i'm only getting ranging calculation only when i'm using "fixed" mode.

 

let me paraphrase my problem, so it makes more sense: I start a dive towards the targets. In fixed mode, I can exactly see where the rockets will hit (fly level and you can see it won't make it to infinity. The pipper falls down.). Also, the range needle starts to move towards 0 further away, compared to gyro mode. In gyro mode however, it's always stationary with the exception of some sway (pitch changes/roll etc.). It behaves like an A/A gun funnel sight. when flying level, the pipper shows infinity.

 

so my questions are:

*when I've searched the forums, i've seen some threads regarding inconsistencies between the manual and the sim. Is this about that or am I doing something wrong?

*should I use gyro when armed for s-24s against stationary ground targets?

*which 2 of the 4 parameters does the fixed mode use?

*why does it feel like only fixed mode is calculating terrain?

 

thank you all for your time and I appreciate any help you could give me with this issue. Have a nice day.

 

 

EDIT: I've discovered the same issue applies to A/G guns too.

Edited July 12, 2017 by exnihilodub

[Frederf]

The sight's function is not accurate to the real item so it is not so helpful to compare to the real manual without great care.

 

The greatest aiming assistance should be gained by using the sight with radar ranging input in the gyro and auto modes. The lock-damp button is held on beginning the dive and released when the pipper is on target (the radar looking in the same direction as the damped pipper at this time). After releasing aiming is refined and the launch light signals the time to fire.

 

First difference is that damp button does nothing (in this mode) and the radar does not lock when button is released. Instead you have to place the small radar "X" over the target and tap the button as lock is commanded on press instead. It's an annoyance of DCS but otherwise this modification of procedure is minor. If you do "lock" a piece of dirt and fly the pipper onto it at ~1850m when the launch lights come on and you fire it is very accurate. There is a minimum dive angle it seems of ~10° or the launch lights will not come on before the breakaway one (and no launch light comes on).

 

There are many combinations of switch positions possible to fire S-24:

 

1. Gyro, auto, radar ranging

2. Gyro, auto, slant unit ranging

3. Gyro, manual, manual ranging

4. Msl, auto, radar ranging

5. Msl, auto, slant unit ranging

6. Msl, manual, manual ranging

 

From an air start I do the following actions to fire a pair of rockets (infinite ammo) in each mode:

1A. Air-ground to ground

1B. Radar to fixed beam

1C. Selector to 1-2 C-24

1D. Dive to put radar x on target, tap lock to lock

1E. Keeping at least 10 degrees of dive fire at 1800-1900m by needle when light illuminates.

 

2A. Radar standby

2B. Climb for height and dive ~20° dive

2C. Fire on launch lights ~1800m by needle.

 

3A. Switch auto-man to manual.

3B. Set range needle by throttle drum to ~1800m.

3C. Dive and fire when estimated slant matches needle value.

 

4A. Gyro-CC to CC

4B. Manual-auto to auto

4C. Radar to on

4D. Attack as per 1D/1E*

*Sight is incorrectly using 9km scale for this attack instead of 2000m scale

 

5A. Radar to standby

5B. Note sight is permanently range ~1700m with launch light on. No idea why slant unit isn't working here.

 

6A. Manual-auto to manual.

6B. Set angles knob to ~44mil (2°15'-2°50' depending on profile) Be aware angles scale is wrong so set to equivalent calculated mils using fixed net as reference.

6C. Attack with standard dive profile and launch at estimated proper slant range.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Frederf

[DaveRindner]

Looks like great information. Two questions.

 

1. Where did you get this info?

2. Where is instruction on how to use Fixed Net?

[Frederf]

Mostly from manuals, occasionally non-English ones. Some behavior is teased out by clues from related instruction and is only as reliable as the thinking that went into it.

 

Fixed net is a pattern defined by angles expressed in mil with some secondary markings.

 

In the MSL mode, aiming at a ground target is possible either with automatic output of constant mean angular corrections for the given kind of weapon (in MSL, AUTO mode) or with manual introduction of precalculated total angular corrections for the given attack conditions (in the MSL, MAN. mode).

 

When in the MSL, AUTO mode, sufficient aiming accuracy is provided under conditions that are close to the rated ones, {dive angles, TAS, firing range figures follow}.

269. To launch rockets in the MSL mode with computation of averaged angular corrections, place the GYRO-MSL and AUTO-MAN. switches in the MSL and AUTO positions, respectively.

This language suggests that the aiming provided in the MSL mode is either fixed in angle or somehow inferior to the GYRO solution. Some research would be helpful to discover if TAS 800 35 degree dive and TAS 900 20 deg at 1700m slant is the same total aiming angle. If it is the same angle then a fixed angle is likely. If it is radically different then some variable pipper position function is in operation. Currently in DCS the MSL AUTO accuracy is probably too good (radar will ground lock out to 30km but solution isn't very good beyond... 5?).

 

Should the range-finding channel of the radar fail, the target range shall be introduced into the sight from the slant-range unit. Then the diameter of the range-finding ring will be varied automatically and the range indicator pointer will be automatically deflected.

It is an interesting question what "radar range channel fail" means. Is radar off failed? Is no radar return fail? Does the last sentence mean that in the event the radar is fully functional that the ring and scale are not automatically varied? There is mention in using radar or slant at more than 20° dive... recommendation for accuracy or physical dependency?

 

In GYRO, AUTO it is recommended to introduce a particular span into the sight (50m in one manual, 40m or 33m in another) is done such that the 22mil minimum diameter will react to increase at a particular range. This would be enormously helpful in DCS!

Edited July 17, 2017 by Frederf