Question on F14 high alpha flight model

[Victory205]

In the current iteration of F14A flight model-

 

Pull to 17-18 units of angle of attack- moderate to heavy buffet. Put the stick a half inch laterally either way- what happens?

[Scrape]

According to the manual the F-14 didn't like lateral inputs at high angle of attack. What's missing from your questions is altitude and speed. Those two variables change quite a bit.

[Robert31178]

I've not done a ton of F-1= technical reading, or really much of any F-14 reading at all if we're being real honest. My question is piggy backed off of the first one I guess, but does the Tomcat experience adverse yaw like Phantom and Super Sabre did?

 

~Rob

[Scrape]

Yes. Just about all aircraft experience it. The Tomcat more than other fighters, particularly at low speeds. Carrier landings will be more difficult in the Tomcat than the Hornet.

 

~JW

[Scrape]

If you are not the type to read technical manuals then perhaps you'll like this video on the F-14 development from Heatblur. Your questions reminded me of it.

 

[BlackLion213]

In the current iteration of F14A flight model-

 

Pull to 17-18 units of angle of attack- moderate to heavy buffet. Put the stick a half inch laterally either way- what happens?

 

Depends on the aircraft configuration.

 

In the landing configuration at 17-18 units AOA, small lateral stick movements cause the nose to initially swing a bit opposite the direction of roll (adverse yaw). Once angle of bank reaches 15-20 deg, the nose swings in a proverse fashion and yaw rate will increase as angle of bank increases. The nose will continue to yaw a bit as wings are brought level and some yaw oscillations are common if counter bank is used to stop the yaw.

 

If you are pulling Gs around 300 KIAS at ~70-80 deg AOB @ 17-18 units AOA - lateral stick inputs towards the ground will often cause a touch of wing drop, some yaw, and steady roll. Lateral stick away from the ground generally cause minimal yaw and a similar rate of roll.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Nick

[Robert31178]

Oh I read a lot of aviation stuff, and a lot of what I read has some good info on configurations and "do's & don'ts", but haven't done any Tomcat reading. I keep meaning to, but end up finding other stuff thst looks more interesting. For example I went on Amazon to find some F-14 related material and ended up buying "Launch The Intruders" lol......I know, I'm silly.

 

~Rob

[Robert31178]

And thanks for the video post, I will watch thst when I get back home in a few days.

[Victory205]

Under those parameters, especially at higher AOA, the F14A will roll opposite the stick (altitude doesn't matter, alpha does, which is G limited at high speeds). I used to put both hands on the stick to keep the stabs centered carefully so as to not induce opposite roll, and control roll with rudder. The aircraft rolled beautifully with rudder in moderate buffet and above. If you wanted to accelerate the roll rate, you could give it a little opposite stick to help the rudder roll.

 

Later the B and D got an upgrade to the SAS and DFCS to make this unnecessary. If Heatblur models this correctly, there will be a lot of confused/frustrated sim pilots. Air combat was flown in the A with Roll SAS off to eliminate adverse inputs that aggravated departure characteristics.

 

The point is that the Tomcat is a different sort of beast.

[Scrape]

Under those parameters, especially at higher AOA, the F14A will roll opposite the stick (altitude doesn't matter, alpha does, which is G limited at high speeds). I used to put both hands on the stick to keep the stabs centered carefully so as to not induce opposite roll, and control roll with rudder. The aircraft rolled beautifully with rudder in moderate buffet and above. If you wanted to accelerate the roll rate, you could give it a little opposite stick to help the rudder roll.

 

Later the B and D got an upgrade to the SAS and DFCS to make this unnecessary. If Heatblur models this correctly, there will be a lot of confused/frustrated sim pilots. Air combat was flown in the A with Roll SAS off to eliminate adverse inputs that aggravated departure characteristics.

 

The point is that the Tomcat is a different sort of beast.

 

Thanks for the knowledge nuggets. Aircraft that have a lot of nuance garner the most interest from me. I'm the same with my race cars. Maybe its because I feel they have character. Im looking forward to what Heatblur produces.

 

From your words I take it you are speaking from first hand knowledge as a Naval pilot or RIO. You should let us know after the release if the flight model passes muster.

[captain_dalan]

Under those parameters, especially at higher AOA, the F14A will roll opposite the stick (altitude doesn't matter, alpha does, which is G limited at high speeds). I used to put both hands on the stick to keep the stabs centered carefully so as to not induce opposite roll, and control roll with rudder. The aircraft rolled beautifully with rudder in moderate buffet and above. If you wanted to accelerate the roll rate, you could give it a little opposite stick to help the rudder roll.

 

....

This! Aileron reversal.

Exactly what i got when i was working on an F-14 flight model years ago.

I don't think it has been discussed so far on this forum. Or maybe i'm just getting old.

[BlackLion213]

Under those parameters, especially at higher AOA, the F14A will roll opposite the stick (altitude doesn't matter, alpha does, which is G limited at high speeds). I used to put both hands on the stick to keep the stabs centered carefully so as to not induce opposite roll, and control roll with rudder. The aircraft rolled beautifully with rudder in moderate buffet and above. If you wanted to accelerate the roll rate, you could give it a little opposite stick to help the rudder roll.

 

 

This! Aileron reversal.

Exactly what i got when i was working on an F-14 flight model years ago.

I don't think it has been discussed so far on this forum. Or maybe i'm just getting old.

 

Yes, the current Heatblur F-14 FM has aileron reversal at high AOA. :) This mostly occurs above 20ish units AOA. Typically the aircraft feints towards the direction of stick input for a brief moment then rolls the opposite direction. As you described, the rudder is very effective for inducing roll at higher AOA and is more predictable than aileron input. There is variability in the response based on conditions, etc. But aileron reversal at high AOA is definitely there (at least when I last checked).

 

Later the B and D got an upgrade to the SAS and DFCS to make this unnecessary. If Heatblur models this correctly, there will be a lot of confused/frustrated sim pilots. Air combat was flown in the A with Roll SAS off to eliminate adverse inputs that aggravated departure characteristics.

 

The point is that the Tomcat is a different sort of beast.

 

Roll SAS also reduces departure resistance in the module, though the effect is most noticeable during coupled rolling and pitch maneuvers around mach 0.8-0.9 (though it can occur at lower speeds too, but not elicited as easily).

 

You're right about it being a different sort of beast. :) While the behaviors it exhibits will be familiar to DCS players, the overall character and control challenges are pretty unique. The sensation of mass and relative inertia contrast sharply with the F-5E. While the Tomcat can out-turn and out-pitch the F-5E, it takes a moment to settle in to control inputs, especially below 350 KIAS or so. Its a really fun aircraft to fly; challenging but very rewarding.

 

-Nick

[Bad Idea Hat]

Under those parameters, especially at higher AOA, the F14A will roll opposite the stick (altitude doesn't matter, alpha does, which is G limited at high speeds). I used to put both hands on the stick to keep the stabs centered carefully so as to not induce opposite roll, and control roll with rudder. The aircraft rolled beautifully with rudder in moderate buffet and above. If you wanted to accelerate the roll rate, you could give it a little opposite stick to help the rudder roll.

 

Later the B and D got an upgrade to the SAS and DFCS to make this unnecessary. If Heatblur models this correctly, there will be a lot of confused/frustrated sim pilots. Air combat was flown in the A with Roll SAS off to eliminate adverse inputs that aggravated departure characteristics.

 

The point is that the Tomcat is a different sort of beast.

 

Call me nuts, but that actually sounds fun.

Granted, I'm a sim cowboy and don't have anything on the line, but I'm probably going to spend my first week in the F-14 on aerobatics online, trying to see when/where the plane decides to go walking down a different path than I want to go on.