Missiles Effectiveness

[Kuky]

I have one question here:

 

Normally when I fly offline I always fly with default Ace settings, and with externals because I want to watch myself when I am just flying around.

 

Anywho... my question is, sometimes when I fly certain servers on HL, like for instance on 77th server, or also on 169th server... I have noticed that very large number of missiles I fire will miss... and this puzzles me because on default Ace settings, missile effectiveness is set to middle (which I think is 50%) but on these servers that use 100% effectiveness, I notice that they actually miss more ?!

 

I just had two occasions that I was 1on1 (me in Su-27 and "enemy" in F-15C), first time I fired 3xR-27ER's and 1xR-27ET's (all of which missed) and I was hit by 6th missile myself (he fired 3xAIM-120's 2xAIM-7's and the last AIM-9 hit me).

 

Offline the R-27ET are very much deadly, and this seems very strange to me that in second encounter with same guy... I evaded some 3xAIM-120's and 1xAIM-7's and 2xAIM-9 and finally I was hit by AIM-7... but I hate that even if we were head to head I never lost a lock on him... even fired 4xR-27ER's 2xR-27ET's and even 2xR-73's from close range... freekin' none of them got a hit?! I mean seriously... 100% effectiveness, what ever that setting means and I'm sure it doesn't represent 100% HIT RATE, and ALL 8 missiles miss every one of them being well within range (I fired only 1xR-27ER from MAX range).

 

This really puts me off... even more that I notice such things only on certain servers... and namely I think it's this 100% effectiveness that's somehow wrong or what?? :huh:

[D-Scythe]

If you know what you're doing, you can exploit the weaknesses in LOMAC's missile modelling no matter what effectiveness it's at. Chances are that your opponent simply knew his stuff.

 

And FYI, the AI is useless for evading ETs offline. The missile is already overmodelled - and the AI still tries to dodge them with AB on.

[Kuky]

Somehow these R-27ER's seems useless... or very easy to evade... I don't consider myself an ACE pilot by no means, but I am not a rookie either... just that this slider thing is making me wonder if I should use it to 100% when I fly offline or not cause it's starting to get on my nerves.

[D-Scythe]

Well, there's a learning curve involved here - you probably just had the bad luck of going up against an experienced LOMAC pilot.

 

And you probably should play at 100% offline.

[S77th-GOYA]

Well, there's a learning curve involved here - you probably just had the bad luck of going up against an experienced LOMAC pilot.

 

And you probably should play at 100% offline.

 

It doesn't take a lot of experience to dump chaff 2 or 3 times.

 

And ED should probably improve missile modeling.

[Pilotasso]

Somehow these R-27ER's seems useless... or very easy to evade... I don't consider myself an ACE pilot by no means, but I am not a rookie either... just that this slider thing is making me wonder if I should use it to 100% when I fly offline or not cause it's starting to get on my nerves.

 

 

 

All Lomac missiles seekers behave the same, i.e. ARH missiles such as R-77 and AMRAAM have the exact same seeker, R-27 and AIM7 have exact same seeker, so on and so forth. While they are flawed, you can still apply some rules of thumb, and these are pretty much of common sense in the aviation world aside from LOMAC itself:

 

A)Position yourself for the shot

B) use surprise

C)Dont fire at max range

D)use stealth

 

What I see online is:

 

1) Everybody flies low and slow

2) everybody fires at max range head to head with the enemy

3)Everybody makes a straight course from his base to the enemies

4) people dont care and bother how to fire their missiles, maddog, difficult angles, bad use of radar etc.

5)Few use their aircrafts unique advantages to efect except to become invisible by eye (mig).

 

So if you keep missing your shots maybe you deserve it. Head to head engagements at the same altitude box when going straight to the enemies base makes your surprise factor go to 0, firing them as soon as you have LA is inviting speding all missiles because they either run out of speed or radar lock loss. WHen this hapens it is very easy to estimate the exact procedures to evade the missiles, you know where the enemy is, how far he is and he didnt have much trouble to detect you but keep the radar aimed straight ahead. So your missiles all get wasted. Sorry to say, but you deserved it. ;)

 

Try outsmart the enemy, position yourself to maximize hits and fire at the best instant, usualy in the no escape zone or close to it. USe stealth as to minimize the enemies reaction to your shots.

 

This implies that you have to invest in a method to aproach your enemy as much as you can do before he knows where you are exactly and before he sees you on radar. I found out that the beahviour online is, as long as they dont see you on their screens they are not as urgent to get evasive, even if they know they are being painted from a location they havent aimed their radars at.

 

If you manage to get close enough from high altidude, or from low altitude torwards a guy flying high, it will be very difficult for him to pick you on radar, and by the time you fire it may be too late for him.

 

R-27's are absolutely lethal under 40km, more so than AMRAAM's, if you managed to surprise him, he is unlikely to ever find you in time to return the favour.

 

The differece between AMRAAM/AIM-7 to R-77/27's? The russian missiles simply put, have more range and are faster. Thats it. If your miss, think about those flying F-15's. ;)

 

I have been using R-27's by jumping on people nearly WVR from high altitude...it KILLZ

At that range AMRAAM and Sparrow would just pi$$ them off for their return shots. But then they should be used differently. AMRAAM is good to force the enemy into head to head (doesnt mean you have to blow your position up from long range, if you can stay outside their radars untill TTA the better) and then turn back to break the R-27's lock.

[Pilotasso]

If you know what you're doing, you can exploit the weaknesses in LOMAC's missile modelling no matter what effectiveness it's at. Chances are that your opponent simply knew his stuff.

 

And FYI, the AI is useless for evading ETs offline. The missile is already overmodelled - and the AI still tries to dodge them with AB on.

 

If WAFM should find its way into BS, indirectly the maddog issue will be offset. Picture this:

 

In 1.12a ET's as much as every other missile fly stright ahead, you can aim them from long ranges.

 

in 1.2 with WAFM, the missiles aimed at 20 miles will simply arch their trajectories and fall to the ground when unguided. It makes aiming much more difficult to do and the missile is wasted. And this also aplies AMRAAM. It should be able to pick a target off the rail in maddog mode but only when the target is within its seekers range, otherwise like the ET it should go stray and dip to the ground.

[GGTharos]

Kuky, 100% 'effectiveness' is very much mis-named.

 

What this really does is alter the 'drift' of the missile's aim. At 100%, there's no drift (it aims straight for the middle of your plane), at 50%, we have the 'most realistic' drift of a few meters, and at 0% there's 20m or more drift from the aimpoint (at which point missiles are capable of missing you entirely without you doing anything about it)

 

As for WAFM, Pilotasso, no it won't. The seeker's scan method needs fixing.

[Pilotasso]

As for WAFM, Pilotasso, no it won't. The seeker's scan method needs fixing.

 

even When its going anywhere but the place you aimed at? ;)

[GGTharos]

A ballistic path won't get you out of the way of a 7nm 120deg scan zone :P

Don't kid yourself, these things don't point the nose down as fast as you'd like.

[Pilotasso]

A ballistic path won't get you out of the way of a 7nm 120deg scan zone :P

Don't kid yourself, these things don't point the nose down as fast as you'd like.

 

Exactly my pointy GG, you didnt read my post properly. I said if its within the seekers range its maddogable, outside it it will go balistic due to the length of the trajectory in unguided mode.

 

in 1.2 with WAFM, the missiles aimed at 20 miles will simply arch their trajectories and fall to the ground when unguided. It makes aiming much more difficult to do and the missile is wasted. And this also aplies AMRAAM. It should be able to pick a target off the rail in maddog mode but only when the target is within its seekers range, otherwise like the ET it should go stray and dip to the ground.

[GGTharos]

Exactly my pointy GG, you didnt read my post properly. I said if its within the seekers range its maddogable, outside it it will go balistic due to the length of the trajectory in unguided mode.

 

You haven't done your math ;)

[D-Scythe]

It doesn't take a lot of experience to dump chaff 2 or 3 times.

 

And ED should probably improve missile modeling.

 

I meant experience for him, the shooter, not the target - it takes some experience to get your opponent defensive with your first 7 missiles and then finally get 'em with your eighth ;)

 

Or you can just get them in heater range and smack 'em with the -ET. The only weakness for a heater are flares, while radar AAMs just plain suck cause you can beam them, chaff them, jam them, etc.