TLTeo Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Military jets are not necessarily taken into departed flight regularly (depending on spin characteristics),e.g. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=235829 It's entirely possible that the Mig's out of the envelope behavior is not well documented enough to code a good FM.
Bogey Jammer Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Here comes CFD I'll buy : МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module
Dr_Arrow Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 I've read a lot of pilot stories and I am in contact with a few former Mig-21 pilots from our airforce. I have yet to find anyone who lives and has handled a full departure in Mig-21. Even test pilots never intentionally tried a departure with Mig-21 and it was not a part of a test program of the aircraft. Everyone I talked to and read about mentions that this flight regime was extremely dangerous and not something that one would like to experience during his career.
LupinYonder Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 P.S. Did anyone come up with an explanation why I can steer by using the rudder (no brakes) on the ground with no wind, with as little as 3kts forward speed? Very effective rudder on this MiG-21! I'd like to know the answer too this mystery too! Although I think the flight model is good, although it looses speed a lot more in the turns than at release ( I think )
Кош Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 I'd like to know the answer too this mystery too! Although I think the flight model is good, although it looses speed a lot more in the turns than at release ( I think ) I'm testing the turn performance to the real charts, and in some parts of the envelope its a little better than real thing :book:, but still its like an outline of the real graph like half of the time, which tells us that generally simulation is OK. What bothers me is sim graph being unparallel to the real graph in some parts and suggests something looks wrong about the proportion of drag to AOA to IAS(like they couldn't nail the drag law that would be right for the whole envelope and overpowered the engine to compensate but this leads to an aircraft that is not a MiG :hehe:). But Im still not quite sure and continuing the examination :detective:. We have to be precise and legitimate in our complains guys. ППС АВТ 100 60 36 Ф < | > ! ПД К i5-10600k/32GB 3600/SSD NVME/4070ti/2560x1440'32/VPC T-50 VPC T-50CM3 throttle Saitek combat rudder
-LEO- Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) As long as i can escape an F5 in stable flight with only 1 wing (F5 did shoot the right wing and it broke off completely), i do not believe that the FM is as it should be :( (love the MiG anyway) Edited April 12, 2019 by -LEO- Intel i5-11400 CPU @ 4.30GHz / ASUS Prime B560-Plus / 32GB DDR3 RAM 3000 Mhz Dual / MSI Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB / SSD Samsung 120/250/500GB / IIyama 27" 1920x1080 @ 144 Hz / Track IR 4+Track Clip Pro / Sennheiser PC 360 / Thrustmaster Warthog Throttel , VPC-Warbrd D+Warthog Stick, TFRP Rudder / WIN 10 Ever tried. Sometimes failed. No matter. Try again.Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett (?)
cuervo111 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 I'm testing the turn performance to the real charts, and in some parts of the envelope its a little better than real thing :book:, but still its like an outline of the real graph like half of the time, which tells us that generally simulation is OK. What bothers me is sim graph being unparallel to the real graph in some parts and suggests something looks wrong about the proportion of drag to AOA to IAS(like they couldn't nail the drag law that would be right for the whole envelope and overpowered the engine to compensate but this leads to an aircraft that is not a MiG :hehe:). But Im still not quite sure and continuing the examination :detective:. We have to be precise and legitimate in our complains guys. I'm curious to know how did you get that data? Is there some tool to extract performance data and plot it? DCS Rosetta, my automatic DCS mission and campaign translator: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233877
TLTeo Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 As long as i can escape an F5 in stable flight with only 1 wing (F5 did shoot the right wing and it broke off completely), i do not believe that the FM is as it should be :( (love the MiG anyway) That sounds more like an issue of the damage model and is everywhere in DCS, not limited to the Mig21
Кош Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 I'm curious to know how did you get that data? Is there some tool to extract performance data and plot it? On basic pass - manually. On sustained turn performance, for example, I set altitude, speed, AOA and see how many G's will be on the dial, change speed, see next, write down, plot point to point. For more indepth - TacView has good plotting options. Basically, for any chart, pilot to get an X and see what Y would be. ППС АВТ 100 60 36 Ф < | > ! ПД К i5-10600k/32GB 3600/SSD NVME/4070ti/2560x1440'32/VPC T-50 VPC T-50CM3 throttle Saitek combat rudder
cuervo111 Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 On basic pass - manually. On sustained turn performance, for example, I set altitude, speed, AOA and see how many G's will be on the dial, change speed, see next, write down, plot point to point. For more indepth - TacView has good plotting options. Basically, for any chart, pilot to get an X and see what Y would be. Ah interesting! Thanks for that Кош! DCS Rosetta, my automatic DCS mission and campaign translator: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233877
-LEO- Posted April 13, 2019 Posted April 13, 2019 That sounds more like an issue of the damage model and is everywhere in DCS, not limited to the Mig21 ok interesting to hear, but i did not experienced this issue with other modules yet. Intel i5-11400 CPU @ 4.30GHz / ASUS Prime B560-Plus / 32GB DDR3 RAM 3000 Mhz Dual / MSI Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB / SSD Samsung 120/250/500GB / IIyama 27" 1920x1080 @ 144 Hz / Track IR 4+Track Clip Pro / Sennheiser PC 360 / Thrustmaster Warthog Throttel , VPC-Warbrd D+Warthog Stick, TFRP Rudder / WIN 10 Ever tried. Sometimes failed. No matter. Try again.Fail again. Fail better. Samuel Beckett (?)
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