DaveRindner Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 I think that the GAU-12 audio and rate are low. Kind of expecting something more similar to GAU-8 but not as violent. Found this little gem from 1979 from Navy China Lake on GAU-12 testing and eval/ Cheers
Quadg Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 nice vid that one. I assume this is the same 25mm round that the bushmaster in the Bradley was designed around. :) can we get the modern depleted uranium APFSDS rounds in the harrier? or is that army only? My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) I was Artillery, not Armor , in US Army, but yes, the Busmaster cannon in M2/M3(FIST) and LAV-25 is same single barrel cannon with 25mm with sabot, HE, incendiary, and blue training. There is also a 25mm Bushmaster equipped HMMWV that was fielded by US Army Motorized Infantry , and ABN, brigades in Panama , DS/DS. In NATO, any ammunition or weapon system that has blue stripes, blue paint, is training and is has no explosive or penetrator cores. The reel shows civi contractors handling blue rounds. The footage does show actual service sabots and HE being tested on old M-48 and M-113 hulks. Is it the same identical round as GAU-12, gotta research that one. In NATO there are multiple 30MM rounds , multiple 20mm, 25mm, and 27mm. It is absurd but the difference is in propellant casing and propellant itself. GAU-12 ammunition has to have sabot penetrators, HE, and incendiary. How Marines and Navy mix it for combat mix load, I am not certain. But for ground work, there is 1 APDS, 5 HE, 1 tracer/incendiary. Could also be 1 sabot, 9 HE, 1 incendiary. For anti-fast craft NAVY/Marines adjust the mix to threat. GAU-22/A modification, where 5 barrels are reduced to 4, is the gunpod for Navy F-35C and Marine/Rn FAA/NATO VSTOL F-35B with 480 round capacity. F-35A carries GAU-22 internally. Replacing traditional Vulcan 20mm with 485/515 magazine in F-15, F-16, and host of other types. Nothing approaches A-10 with its GAU-8 with massive 1185 capacity. The size of GAU-8, BTW, is not in the cannon, which is about same size as GAU-12, but in its massive magazine and feed system. There is a possibility of 4 barrel Equalizer from F-35 to be installed in new build F-16V and possible F-15X, and adaptations for LCS and small NATO surface combatants. As small craft and terror threats have magnified. Slovakia just ordered 14 new build F-16V/Block 70 airframes to replace its Mig-29s. Most advanced F-16 yet. ViperStrike beat out GrippenNG, according to Slovaks. LM is promising 10,000 hour life time for airframe. Thats 30-40 years. F-16 is going to be around for long time. Edited July 21, 2018 by DaveRindner
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 M242 Bushmaster is chain driven. GAU-12 is electric drive.
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_mm_caliber#Current_weapons According to Wiki 25X137mm round is same round for M242 Bushmaster chain cannon (M2, and LAV-25), GAU-12 5bl for HarrierII, and GAU-22/A 4 brl gun for F-35, and possible for F-16V Blk 70, and F-15X. APDS, HE, and tracer incendiary rounds are available. Rate of fire is 3600-4400 rpm, 3300 for GAU-22/A
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 Here is GAU-22/A testing vid. I think that GAU-12 in DCS: AV-8B should sound similar, and even that GAU-22/A is 4 barrels and 3300 rpm rate. If anyone knows how to convert standard AIFF , QT mov, or Windows .wav into DCS sound effect. Please post.
ChickenSim Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 The GAU-12 is actually pneumatic driven. An air motor uses 8th-stage bleed air to maintain 60-90 psi air pressure and generate 35 hp, but the rate of fire is somewhat dependent on engine RPM. 15 hp is required to operate it at all (there is a minimum RPM chart, but generally >60%), and it varies between 3600-4200 rounds per minute. The rounds are 25x137mm M790 ammunition redesignated by type, but the only variants used by Harriers are: PGU-20/U Armor Piercing Incendiary (Depleted Uranium Penetrator - not a SABOT though) PGU-22/U High Explosive Incendiary/Self-Destruct PGU-23/U Target Practice PGU-24/U Dummy PGU-25/U High Explosive Incendiary PGU-25 A/U High Explosive Incendiary PGU-32/U Semi-Armor Piercing High Explosive Incendiary PGU-33/U Target Practice Frangible "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements."
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 Thank you for the correction. It is likely that DU rounds have been replaced with tungsten penetrator core. DU has been found to be persistent toxic hazard.
ChickenSim Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 That's possible. I know Harrier PGU-20/U was still DU as recent as last year, but there's plenty out there indicating that "Enhanced PGU-20" was on the horizon with Tungsten instead. This may just be for the F-35 gun though. "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements."
DaveRindner Posted July 21, 2018 Author Posted July 21, 2018 Isn't ramair an electric motor driven by impeller. It is the electric motor that spins the gun and powers the feed system. The motor itself is driven by ramair turbine, so it doesn't have to use onboard batterry. On ground, it is powered by cart. '
Akula67 Posted July 21, 2018 Posted July 21, 2018 Hi there, I've also noticed that the sound of the GAU12 was weird recently, I think that's a regresion from when the gun used to have a placeholder sound instead. A couple of patches ago the sound effect was much better but it seems that for some reason Razbam has reverted to this placeholder sound. Maybe the question should be asked in the bugs section ? Akula
al531246 Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 DU has been found to be persistent toxic hazard. Has it? Standing in your garden exposes you to more radiation than a DU round! Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD
FSKRipper Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 But does standing in your garden let you inhalate fine uranium dust from projectiles deep in your lungs? i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Quadg Posted July 22, 2018 Posted July 22, 2018 it not the radiation that is toxic in the uranium... its the uranium. heavy metal poisoning. plutonium is even worse. its highly toxic before you factor in radiation. My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.
DaveRindner Posted July 22, 2018 Author Posted July 22, 2018 DU hazard is not radioactivity. Its radioactivity is about same as raw U ore. Hence its name, DEPLETED. As fissionable istopes have been removed for nuclear fuel or weapons. They left over material is depleted Uranium. A dense heavy substance that in about 4 billion years will become lead. It has to be stored underground, and has little use. So someone in DOE back in 60's heard that USAF and US Army were working on kinetic energy munitions. A heavy dense substance accelerated to supersonic velocities has a lot of energy. Momentum = Mass * Velocity, basic physics. So DOE proposed using DU as penetrator cores to save money to DOD, and save money for DOE as they would not have to store material. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Today we know better, hindsight and all. The hazard is that it is toxic,a poison. It oxidises into UraniumOxide. It is carcinogenic, and there is evidence that it is teratogenic with possible epigenetic side effect. When it was stored or made into penetrators, there was little surface area for it to oxidize. It was not handled directly, so it was safe substance. But when it is vaporized due collision and heat, the surface area increases exponentialy and particle size is microscopic.
ChickenSim Posted July 24, 2018 Posted July 24, 2018 (edited) Isn't ramair an electric motor driven by impeller. It is the electric motor that spins the gun and powers the feed system. The motor itself is driven by ramair turbine, so it doesn't have to use onboard batterry. On ground, it is powered by cart. ' No, it's literally an air drive motor in the Harrier. Bleed air hits the forward duct assembly. When the gun is selected and armed, a shutoff valve opens allowing bleed air to hit the regulator assembly (where it seeks 60-90 psi). When the trigger is pulled, the electronic control unit allows bleed air through the regulator assembly and valve and duct assembly into the pneumatic drive unit that converts the bleed air into (15-)35 hp of mechanical power and cycles the weapon. Block diagrams from A1-AV8BB-TAC-050 pgs. 2-508 - 2-510. Edited July 24, 2018 by ChickenSim "It is also true that we parted ways with Chicken after some disagreements."
DaveRindner Posted July 24, 2018 Author Posted July 24, 2018 Pu is insanely toxic substance. If it wasn't used in nuclear weapons, it would a banned substance. Period. It is used in nuke weapons because it allows miniaturization of the weapon core, aka the "Physics Package". So a small casing like in B-61 can accommodate a high yield device. Allows placing multiple warheads on same ICBM. Pu cannot be handled by naked hands, and there is no safe amount of PPM for inhalation. It oxidises and turns into fine dust which flakes off the metal, and drifts on air current. Pu is quite possibly the most hatefull evil substance ever created by humans. It shares that slot with Pollonium, another deadly poison which kills by toxicity and by radiation. A favorite of KGB as poison, as tiny amounts , are deadly, without risk of contamination. Sadly both elements were discovered , independently, by Americans, British , French, and Russians, as production of refined Uranium and operation of early nuclear reactors. However only the Russians retained breeder reactors that manufactured Pu and Po.
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