RallyNH Posted October 1, 2018 Posted October 1, 2018 So first off I want to say a huge Thank You to ED for the free weekend! I loved being able to try not only the F/A-18 but also the PG map. I have a few quick thought on the Hornet coming from mostly flying the AV-8B and the M2000C. The Hornet is so very logical in the way things function and the layout of the cockpit. WOW, can it carry a ton of ordinance, flying out to the "target range" with 6 Aim-120C, 2 Aim-7MH, & a pair of Aim-9Xs is quite different than the Mirage with only 4 missiles. Now for a few questions, ever once in a while with the radar in RWS the beam stops/freezes on the left side of the radar scope and then starts again on its own? The Aim-120C seems to be not that great, let me explain. My target range mission has a pair of clean SU-17m4 flying a racetrack pattern at 25,000 about 80 miles north of my starting airbase. I get them on radar at about 50 miles and lock up one of them. I wait until I'm well inside the "No Escape Range" normally about 13-15 miles and shoot. I'd say I have a close to 70% miss rate, using the Aim-7MH I'm getting a slightly longer engagement range and something closer to a 30-40% miss rate which seems wrong to me. Flying the same mission with the Mirage the engagement range is shorter with the S530D (about 9 miles) but over 4 missiles fired (over 2 flights) one missed the rest hit but did not kill which seems strange, the Aim-120Cs that hit where all kills and it only has a 40 pound warhead where the S530d seems to be 66 pounds. Is there something I'm doing wrong with the AMRAAM? None of this is meant as a complaint more of a what am I doing wrong. Now I have to make a really hard decision, do I buy the bundle or wait and see what happens with the Tomcat on the 7th.
Revelation Posted October 1, 2018 Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Now for a few questions, ever once in a while with the radar in RWS the beam stops/freezes on the left side of the radar scope and then starts again on its own? The radar on the Hornet is very much WIP. Wags posted a video over the weekend with a demonstration of improvements that are scheduled to come in an update on the 3rd. The Aim-120C seems to be not that great, let me explain.It is WIP but it is still a great missile in its current implementation. My target range mission has a pair of clean SU-17m4 flying a racetrack pattern at 25,000 about 80 miles north of my starting airbase. I get them on radar at about 50 miles and lock up one of them. I wait until I'm well inside the "No Escape Range" normally about 13-15 miles and shoot. The range at which you can fire varies based on your altitude, your speed, your attitude, your vector, your target's altitude, your target's attitude and your target's speed. For instance an aircraft flying head on at 600knots+ while you are flying at 20k feet+ and 600knots+ you can easily launch outside of 40NM with a flashing Shoot Que. If nothing changes, you will kill your target - that rarely happens. One thing to keep in mind, modern missiles have limited amounts of solid or liquid fuel internally. They typically burn for 5-10 seconds after release; after that they must use their kinetic energy to reach its target. Your target will have more fuel onboard. If your target turns and performs evasive maneuvers he has the ability to defeat your missile by causing it to use its energy to try and maintain a lead pursuit which can and often results in the missile running out of energy by the time it reaches the target. The closer you are to the target the less chance the target has of defeating your missile by maneuvers alone. Liberal countermeasure use and defensive maneuvers can still defeat modern missiles, but it is less likely. I'd say I have a close to 70% miss rate, using the Aim-7MH I'm getting a slightly longer engagement range and something closer to a 30-40% miss rate which seems wrong to me. Tacview is a great utility to learn about missiles and how to be effective with them. I recommend at least using the free version of Tacview to get a better understanding of what is happening after you launch a missile, what your target is doing and watching how quickly the speed on the missile drops off. Flying the same mission with the Mirage the engagement range is shorter with the S530D (about 9 miles) but over 4 missiles fired (over 2 flights) one missed the rest hit but did not kill which seems strange, the Aim-120Cs that hit where all kills and it only has a 40 pound warhead where the S530d seems to be 66 pounds. At a closer range, missiles are harder to evade. That is because there is less distance to close between the two aircraft prior to the motor burning out. That typically means more energy for the missile to use to maneuver to hit its target. If you fire an Aim-120 at 9 NM they are extremely hard to defeat. As far as the warhead, that is a better question for Razbam and ED to answer. Is there something I'm doing wrong with the AMRAAM? None of this is meant as a complaint more of a what am I doing wrong. Now I have to make a really hard decision, do I buy the bundle or wait and see what happens with the Tomcat on the 7th.Definitely pickup Tacview, if you like it, throw the Devs some money and buy a copy - it is worth the money. This one tool will help you more than you can imagine when it comes to understanding missiles in DCS. Edited October 2, 2018 by Revelation Win 10 Pro 64Bit | 49" UWHD AOC 5120x1440p | AMD 5900x | 64Gb DDR4 | RX 6900XT
backspace340 Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 The range cues on the Mirage seem inaccurate - at 60kft going M2.0 with enemy closing at the same height/speed, the Mirage puts Rmax with the 530D at 20nm, whereas it's easy to get a kill at nearly 40nm with it (and the missile still has plenty of energy when it hits). On the deck at M0.9 it puts Rmax at 7.5nm but the AIM-7 in the Hornet will say it's in range at 15nm. The Mirage definitely seems to take a different approach to Rmax/Rne (or it's just plain wrong) - though that helps increase your chances of killing with the missile because if you stick to the Rmax/Rne cues, then you've got a lot more energy with the 530D when it reaches the enemy than you do with the AIM-7 or 120.
Xxx Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 So first off I want to say a huge Thank You to ED for the free weekend! I loved being able to try not only the F/A-18 but also the PG map. I have a few quick thought on the Hornet coming from mostly flying the AV-8B and the M2000C. The Hornet is so very logical in the way things function and the layout of the cockpit. WOW, can it carry a ton of ordinance, flying out to the "target range" with 6 Aim-120C, 2 Aim-7MH, & a pair of Aim-9Xs is quite different than the Mirage with only 4 missiles. Now for a few questions, ever once in a while with the radar in RWS the beam stops/freezes on the left side of the radar scope and then starts again on its own? The Aim-120C seems to be not that great, let me explain. My target range mission has a pair of clean SU-17m4 flying a racetrack pattern at 25,000 about 80 miles north of my starting airbase. I get them on radar at about 50 miles and lock up one of them. I wait until I'm well inside the "No Escape Range" normally about 13-15 miles and shoot. I'd say I have a close to 70% miss rate, using the Aim-7MH I'm getting a slightly longer engagement range and something closer to a 30-40% miss rate which seems wrong to me. Flying the same mission with the Mirage the engagement range is shorter with the S530D (about 9 miles) but over 4 missiles fired (over 2 flights) one missed the rest hit but did not kill which seems strange, the Aim-120Cs that hit where all kills and it only has a 40 pound warhead where the S530d seems to be 66 pounds. Is there something I'm doing wrong with the AMRAAM? None of this is meant as a complaint more of a what am I doing wrong. Now I have to make a really hard decision, do I buy the bundle or wait and see what happens with the Tomcat on the 7th. The F/A 18c Hornet is, in my opinion, still a work in progress. Air to ground is limited to iron bombs and rockets. Required ordinance would be, LGB, Maverick, JDAM, HARM, JSOW and ALCM. Or at least some Paveways, so we can drop them with JTAC targeting, like the Mirage. Lightning Laser designators, FLIR and MFD dislay would be nice! Air to air, well the radar, I believe, is being worked on. In order to use the Amraam well, the radar modes need to be fully implemented. RWS, TWS, VS. TWS is required for the Amraam to be ripple fired at multiple targets. Then the AIM 120 becomes really interesting. When the strike capability of the aircraft is finished, I can foresee some interesting missions in the excellent Mission Planner. For now, the Viggen, Harrier and Mirage are my go to strike aircraft. Of all the weapons available to the Hornet, I would like to see the Harpoon implemented, after all, it's a Navy Strike Aircraft!:music_whistling: In the "e" (another sim), carrying 2 Sidewinders, 1 Amraam, 2 HARMs and 4 JSOWS or JDAMS, or Paveways, I can attack a SAM/AAA defended enemy and return to the carrier. Taking out any stray CAP on the way home. Would be a nice Xmas present?:smilewink: Regards David [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]i7 Haswell @ 4.6Ghz, Z97p, GTX1080, 32GB DDR3, x3SSD, Win7/64, professional. 32" BenQ, TIR 5, Saitek x55 HOTAS. Search User Files for "herky" for my uploaded missions. My flight sim videos on You Tube. https://www.youtube.com/user/David Herky
Anklebiter Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 The F/A 18c Hornet is, in my opinion, still a work in progress. I'd argue that every plane in the catalogue is a work in progress. This is a very good thing as they are continually improved. The Hornet is at alpha stage, so it is earlier in the process. If you use the other planes as a guide to how the Hornet will progress; it is a pretty safe buy. Of course anything can happen, but barring some major catastrophe, the Hornet should shape up to be a flagship product.
Spectre_USA Posted October 2, 2018 Posted October 2, 2018 I reckon it is well on it's way! I bought the Hawk as an alpha a few years back, and it is still alpha. This beast is well beyond it, and shows every indication that it is going to be a solid piece of kit. having a few intro lessons goes a long way to show some love of their project/product. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] A tale of 2 hogs
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