Flight model realistic / ok?

[mvsgas]

That is quite violent! It seems to be by the book. :thumbup:

 

 

BUT, that is not the same subject we were talking about.

 

" Originally Posted by mvsgas

----------------------

11.3.1.3 Transonic Wing Drop All variants of the AV−8B can experience a sudden uncommanded roll−off, also called wing drop, caused by the abrupt asymmetric stall of the wings. Wing drop occurs suddenly, with little or no warning to the pilot, and may occur at AOAs below the maneuvering tone. The severity of wing drop increases as Mach number increases and as altitude decreases. At Mach numbers greater than 0.8 IMN, wing drop may occur 3° AOA below the maneuvering tone. At greater than 0.8 IMN wing drop may occur 3° AOA below maneuvering tone. The severity of wing drop increases as Mach number increases and as altitude decreases. If wing drop occurs, flying qualities can be improved by reducing AOA.

 

WARNING

Transonic wing drop may occur at angles of attack below the maneuvering tone. Extreme care should be exercised at elevated AOA when maneuvering near ground level above Mach 0.8.

.

-------------------------------------"

 

 

Here there is no mention of aileron input, neither is it a comlete departure from controlled flight. As I understand the text there should be a tendecy for a simple uncommanded roll to one direction, when pulling back the stick hard enough (no aileron input) while flying at high mach numbers.

 

 

In the following track I actually go over Mach 1, then pull full aft stick (clean aircraft diving from 10000 m ) and there is no tendency of uncommanded roll or any other adverse effects.

 

 

Again I am simply relying on your text from the NATOPS, nothing more.

 

Here are the other relevant parts of the NATOPS:

 

11.3.1 Critical Mach

 

The free--stream Mach number at which there are first signs of local sonic airflow on the wing and hence shockwaveformation.Critical Mach (Mcrit) is measured in 1g flight.



This occurs on the AV--8B at 0.82 to 0.85 IMN (indicated mach number).

 

11.3.1.1 Shock--induced Flow Separation

 

Loss of smooth (laminar) airflow over the wing can occur due to shock wave formation if the airflow over the wing is allowed to become supersonic.

 

A1-AV8BB--NFM--000ORIGINAL

 

11-311.3.1.2 Maneuvering Mcrit

 

Although Mcrit is measured in 1g flight, the effect of shockwave formation can occur at Mach numbers below Mcrit due to AOA on the wing. The increasing AOA accelerates the airflow across the top of the wing so that it becomes supersonic at an IMN less than the 1 g critical Mach. In the AV--8B this effect becomes apparent when maneuvering above 0.78 IMN

 

 



11.3.1.4 Force Divergence Mach Number/Drag Rise



The indicated Mach number above critical Mach, which produces a sharp change in the drag coefficient (boundarylayer separation due to shock wave formation ) is termed the “force divergence” Mach number. It is also referred toas “drag divergence” and occurs on the Harrier at approximately 0.87 IMN and results in buffet, trim and stability changes, and a decrease in control surface effectiveness

 

If the buffet is quite severe or prolonged, structural damageor failure may occur when this boundary layer separation is experienced on the wing due to shock wave formation.There will be a loss of lift and a subsequent loss of downwash aft of the affected area. When shock induced separationoccurs symmetrically at the wing root the decrease of downwash aft of this area results in a decrease in downwashon the horizontal stabilator and thus we notice the aircraft’s tendency to “tuck”. If the wings shock unevenly due tophysical shape differences or sideslip, a rolling moment will be created in the direction of the initial loss of lift andwill contribute to “wing drop” and control difficulty. If either of these conditions occurs reduce the throttle anddecelerate the aircraft below 0.78 IMNwhile avoiding any large control inputs

 

 

 

 

What is this? The makings of a proper bug report with track and information to verify? Hell we just need version number and PM Decoy. Do you you want to create a new thread? I can do it for you just need the versions number. I will even PM Decoy if you would like. I haven't seen a proper bug report in so long. I am not being a smart ass, I truly mean it thank you.

 

Thank you for you finding and for reporting this.

I wish we still had the rep system.

 

If you do make a new thread for this, include the version number on the tittle, it make it easier to find and update for the people tracking bug I think.

Edited February 9, 2019 by mvsgas

[Vitormouraa]

What is this? The makings of a proper bug report with track and information to verify? Hell we just need version number and PM Decoy. Do you you want to create a new thread? I can do it for you just need the versions number. I will even PM Decoy if you would like. I haven't seen a proper bug report in so long. I am not being a smart ass, I truly mean it thank you.

 

Thank you for you finding and for reporting this.

I wish we still had the rep system.

 

If you do make a new thread for this, include the version number on the tittle, it make it easier to find and update for the people tracking bug I think.

 

:doh:

[mvsgas]

Ok so the next set of drills are being harder. So far I keep failing to maintain the parameters describe in the manuals. All indication show the DCS harrier maintaining energy better than RL aircraft and being easier to fly not harder.

 

AOA energy management

[ATTACH]204167[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]204168[/ATTACH]

I did not maintain speed, turns where easily at 7 to 8 unit AOA instead of 10.5 to 12.5. I got the turn rate maneuver wrong ( forgot the parameter, need to write it up in a pad I can see while in DCS)

 

I got to retry AOA energy management, Turn rate, Slow speed AOA and Hard turns

 

 

So if you guys post those track like HWasp that would be great. Please non of those;

- I don't like it so it must be wrong

- That guys agree with me so we must be right

- Some one told me once they heard some say they know a guys that told them it was wrong

[bkthunder]

The AV8B has been modelled using extensive data, the Harrier Flight model its as accurate as can be for a sim.

 

Does it officially mean that the following effects (in no particular order):

 

- refueling probe effect

- hot gas ingestion

- instability due to ground effect

- instability due to intake momentum drag

 

 

will never be implemented for the Razbam harrier?