Kirbs454 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Hey all, What's everyone's range they're getting on Link16, between each other in their own flight? A mate and I are only seeing a couple of miles(if that) between each other before loosing one another on the SA page. Have deleted the tracks and recreated them in ME to recycle the .miz file, with no joy. If this has been asked and answered in another thread pls let me know and I'll check there. I've had a look through and couldn't find any info. Cheers Kirbs
backspace340 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 It's probably going to be explained by the TACAN channel conflict Wags mentioned in the mini updates. Set any TACAN equipped units to channels 37-46 for now (after the next update you can use anything other than 68/69)
Yeti42 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Hey all, What's everyone's range they're getting on Link16, between each other in their own flight? A mate and I are only seeing a couple of miles(if that) between each other before loosing one another on the SA page. Have deleted the tracks and recreated them in ME to recycle the .miz file, with no joy. If this has been asked and answered in another thread pls let me know and I'll check there. I've had a look through and couldn't find any info. Cheers Kirbs Link 16 is LOS (Line of sight) but some units have the ability to relay signals from one node to another, essentially creating a mesh network, I doubt however that ED have modelled this due to a number of reasons... so It would be pure LOS which could be anything up to 200 km ish... So if you're the other side of a mountain, you're wingman shouldn't be able to communicate with you via Link 16... Windows 10 64 bit | Intel i5-9600k OC 5 Ghz | RTX 2080 |VENGEANCE® LPX 32GB DDR 4 OC 3200 Hotas Warthog | Logitech G Flight Rudder Pedals | Track IR 4
Txshooter38 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Yep....same problem here. Angels 22, clear weather, no mountains and nothing in the way. 6-8 miles and it appears to drop the link. I can't remember if the tacan was on or not....
amalahama Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Link 16 is LOS (Line of sight) but some units have the ability to relay signals from one node to another, essentially creating a mesh network No, it doesn't work like that
Manuel_108 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Lot of assumptions here.... No, it doesn't work like that So, how does it work then?
=Mac= Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Not sure where to put this so I'll try here. Several days ago, I tried Link 16. I put 4 enemy civilian YAK-40 planes up, an AWACS, and an F-15. I got all four bandits on the SA page in red angles. I then proceeded to shoot all four down. Of course, my radar could not find anything yet all 4 red angles were still on the SA page. There were zero enemy aircraft in the mission besides those 4 that were no longer in the air. Is this a bug? The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...
Banzaiib Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 Not sure where to put this so I'll try here. Several days ago, I tried Link 16. I put 4 enemy civilian YAK-40 planes up, an AWACS, and an F-15. I got all four bandits on the SA page in red angles. I then proceeded to shoot all four down. Of course, my radar could not find anything yet all 4 red angles were still on the SA page. There were zero enemy aircraft in the mission besides those 4 that were no longer in the air. Is this a bug? Yes. That is a bug. Wags said it's fixed internally and will be in the next update. This is mentioned specifically in his mini-update regarding "Ghost Contacts" on the SA page.
Yeti42 Posted March 6, 2019 Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) No, it doesn't work like that Yes it does.... but maybe not in DCS.... ;) Apart from actually having worked on it during my 12 years in the Air Force, there is plenty of documentation out there explaining how it works from reputable sources... Like:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_16 From Northop Grumman: https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/DataLinkProcessingAndManagement/Documents/Understanding_Voice+Data_Link_Networking.pdf Edited March 6, 2019 by Yeti42 Windows 10 64 bit | Intel i5-9600k OC 5 Ghz | RTX 2080 |VENGEANCE® LPX 32GB DDR 4 OC 3200 Hotas Warthog | Logitech G Flight Rudder Pedals | Track IR 4
Kirbs454 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) Cheers for all the replies guys! We tried it both with TCN off and on with different channels. Ill keep trying. Edited March 8, 2019 by Kirbs454
RShackleford Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 No, it doesn't work like that It actually works pretty much like that. Line of sight is required for everything, but there has to be one entity that is the net time reference (NTR) to keep everything connected correctly and it's usually a C2 platform. There's also platforms that connect link16 and SADL players together (gateways.) If you can't get network data directly from another link16 player but the C2 platform does, you'll get the info from the C2. Disregarding this whole airborne C2 discussion, Link16 works a lot farther away than 5-6 miles fighter to fighter only. Of course it doesn't work from one side of a mountain to the other (LOS blocked) but at 20k ft you should be able to see most of what your wingman sees in the DCS maps. A 4-ship eagle commit usually makes the formation spread apart by 10-20nm for the initial push, relying on datalink for position keeping. 5th gens spread even wider apart.
backspace340 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 A 4-ship eagle commit usually makes the formation spread apart by 10-20nm for the initial push, relying on datalink for position keeping. 5th gens spread even wider apart. Out of interest, how does that work in practice? Are people just eyeballing the distances from the SA screen or is there a different function that allows you to see more precisely your distance from other donors/wingmen? I imagine if your SA radius is 160nm, it's going to be quite difficult to gauge when you're 10nm laterally spaced from your flight, obviously easier if it's only 20nm/40nm, then you can just make sure they're halfway/quarter of the way to the edge.
RShackleford Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Out of interest, how does that work in practice? Are people just eyeballing the distances from the SA screen or is there a different function that allows you to see more precisely your distance from other donors/wingmen? I imagine if your SA radius is 160nm, it's going to be quite difficult to gauge when you're 10nm laterally spaced from your flight, obviously easier if it's only 20nm/40nm, then you can just make sure they're halfway/quarter of the way to the edge. My experience is F-15E side. Our equivalent is the SIT page. You scale the SIT page for what you're doing, it has some nice HOTAS so you can scale in and out, change the focus, etc. while you're in command of the A2A radar. I'll generally have a small size for transit and admin, then scale out to 80-160nm de-centered/centered for tactical portion. Having the JHMCS helps a lot, because I can look towards donors and see where people are down to .1nm accuracy. Little circle around (or at least near, because the alignment isn't perfect) flight lead and a number next to it to give range. Before having JHCMS, I would work things to make sense for the mission (and still do.) Air to air, the cursors on the SIT match where my cursors on the radar are. Air to ground, I make it so the cursors don't match, so I can latch flight lead on the SIT page, change command to air to air radar, and my cursors stay latched to flight lead for BRAA/bullseye info while I work air to air radar independently. I guess the simple answer to your question is that if you can see you're roughly line abreast to your element lead with A/A TACAN also on to give decently good measurements, you don't really need to see anyone. Done some "IMC Rules" fights where I haven't seen my flight lead the entire time just by using A/A TACAN and Link16.
KlarSnow Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 In the F-15 you can "latch" your cursors to an entity, and then it will tell you the range and bra and you don't have to manipulate your cursors when you look at your SA page equivalent you get the range, Also you build rules of thumb on the SA page equivalent, for example if I'm on a 80 miles scope, then our 20 mile wide formation needs to be 1/4 the width, or put the wingtip of my indicator on the SA page on the PPLI of my wingman will equal ~x range. EDIT: What RShackleford said
backspace340 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 My experience is F-15E side. Our equivalent is the SIT page. You scale the SIT page for what you're doing, it has some nice HOTAS so you can scale in and out, change the focus, etc. while you're in command of the A2A radar. I'll generally have a small size for transit and admin, then scale out to 80-160nm de-centered/centered for tactical portion. Having the JHMCS helps a lot, because I can look towards donors and see where people are down to .1nm accuracy. Little circle around (or at least near, because the alignment isn't perfect) flight lead and a number next to it to give range. Before having JHCMS, I would work things to make sense for the mission (and still do.) Air to air, the cursors on the SIT match where my cursors on the radar are. Air to ground, I make it so the cursors don't match, so I can latch flight lead on the SIT page, change command to air to air radar, and my cursors stay latched to flight lead for BRAA/bullseye info while I work air to air radar independently. I guess the simple answer to your question is that if you can see you're roughly line abreast to your element lead with A/A TACAN also on to give decently good measurements, you don't really need to see anyone. Done some "IMC Rules" fights where I haven't seen my flight lead the entire time just by using A/A TACAN and Link16. Great, thanks for answering - and you too KlarSnow. Looking forward to getting that JHMCS functionality in the Hornet, sounds incredible!
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