Gulf crash to desktop and ideal settings

[Laer]

Hi. I've been running 1.5 fine for years, and even 2.5 seemed to perform well, too.

 

I very recently bought the Gulf map, and although the frame rate is very good, I find it is doing a clean crash to desktop (after a several minutes of flight?).

 

My system is old, and the CPU is definitely the weakest aspect (yet this is the first time I've had issues with DCS for years). Unfortunately, upgrading is impossible (due to the motherboard)... so, all I would be able to do is buy an entirely new system, which just isn't a wise thing for now.

 

I'm not fully sure what is actually triggering the crashes. All other performance actually seems surprisingly good.

 

I'm hoping someone could suggest ideal settings for my particular system (...Luckily, I am only wanting to run at 1920x1080, and am absolutely fine disabling things like heat blur, etc).

 

My system:

 

Intel i7 920 (2.67gHz) (Not overclocked)

Win7 Premium

12 Gigs RAM

NVidia 1060 3G

Virtually empty 2 gig secondary drive (new) for DCS install

TrackIR + X52Pro

 

 

I have several things set off or low. Not sure what would cause the CTD... GPU memory running out? If so, what do I need to turn down to help that?

 

This issue is only with the Gulf map.

 

Could someone advise me on ideal settings for my setup? Thanks!

[Rudel_chw]

My belief is that yor PG map is crashing because of low memory, as 12 GB is barely enough. Since your pc uses older ddr3 memory, maybe you could expand it to 24 gb relatively cheaply using second hand ram.

 

Check if your pc has available ram slots, most likely you are using 3 sticks of 4 GB each and thus have 3 more slots free. If you are currently using 6 sticks of 2 GB then you are out of luck, as you would have no available slots.

[Laer]

Hi, Rudel_chw. Thanks for the response.

 

 

Ya, I think my RAM slots are filled, and even possibly maxed. I'll have to verify that for sure.

 

 

It's a premade (Gateway FX) system, so it's virtually designed not to be expandable, unfortunately. I've wanted to update the CPU, but the best I can do it take it up to maybe a 2.80ish level... which is probably not worth the trouble.

 

 

I'm not sure what options I do have for the RAM. The motherboard pretty much limits everything I can do, and replacing one thing sometimes would result in the need to upgrade another... and then you're back to just getting a whole new system.

 

 

 

 

Is there something in the settings I can turn down/off to ease the RAM load? I think I have the pre-load up high (to avoid in-game load stuttering), so maybe I should lower that? The frame rate is quite nice (with some occasional microstutters).

 

 

Weird that the default map has run flawlessly for years, yet the PG map introduced the crashes. They are clean crashes, with no pre-warning. Just dumps to the desktop. I'll definitely try lowering the preload, as that's one thing I did change most recently.

 

 

 

If there's any other setting that might contribute, please let me know. I have heard there is a Structures attribute in the config file which can be lowered. I assume that's a CPU stress helping thing... or would that also help in a RAM issue?

[Rudel_chw]

Ya, I think my RAM slots are filled, and even possibly maxed. I'll have to verify that for sure.

 

You can use this small & safe utility, to see the status of your ram slots and exactly what type of ram is on each:

 

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

 

Old memory purchased 2nd hand shouldnt be expensive, at lest where I live its fairly cheap, so check the motherboard slots status .. maybe upgrading to 24 GB is possible and one of the cheapest upgrades you could have.

 

About dcs configuration, the only item that Im sure affects ram usage is the preload radius ... lower it to minimum and then play to check if the CTD still occurs ... if not, then increase the radius in steps until you find the highest it can go without CTD.

 

Good luck

[Laer]

It appears I have 6 sticks of 2GB 667MHz DDR3 SDRAM (DR3-1333).

 

 

Not sure if I could completely remove that and put in new (and more) RAM with this motherboard. I'd gladly buy new (and more) RAM if that's possible. I'll have to ask the store.

 

 

Ah! Well if the CTD thing is likely the preload radius, then that is very, very likely what the issue here, as the preload IS quite high (and that's one thing I know I did alter... which was a bad idea, in retrospect!).

 

 

Okay, so I probably just have to lower that, and all will be good. That would explain why the default map worked fine for years, and the issue is suddenly happening now.... I changed that setting recently! Hopefully, that's all that is needed, as the map runs surprisingly well, otherwise.

 

 

Thanks for your help, Rudel_chw. Cheers!

[Rudel_chw]

It appears I have 6 sticks of 2GB 667MHz DDR3 SDRAM (DR3-1333).

 

Not sure if I could completely remove that and put in new (and more) RAM with this motherboard. I'd gladly buy new (and more) RAM if that's possible. I'll have to ask the store.

 

Pity, you could replace the 2 gb sticks with 4 gb ones, but new ones can be expensive, If I were on your case, I would go with 2nd hand sticks. You could also replace only half the memory sticks, that would leave you with 3*4 + 3*2 = 18 gb .. but if you can afford it, its best to use 6 identical sticks and go with 24 GB.

 

Use only DDR3-1333 ram of 4 GB .. do not confuse with notebook memory, as they are different from desktop memory.

 

You would have to research on Gateway website if your specific PC does support 4 GB ddr3 sticks .. most likely yes, but better to be sure.

 

Hopefully just adjusting the preload radious would solve your issue.

Cheers.

[DflippinK]

Hi. I've been running 1.5 fine for years, and even 2.5 seemed to perform well, too.

 

I very recently bought the Gulf map, and although the frame rate is very good, I find it is doing a clean crash to desktop (after a several minutes of flight?).

 

My system is old, and the CPU is definitely the weakest aspect (yet this is the first time I've had issues with DCS for years). Unfortunately, upgrading is impossible (due to the motherboard)... so, all I would be able to do is buy an entirely new system, which just isn't a wise thing for now.

 

I'm not fully sure what is actually triggering the crashes. All other performance actually seems surprisingly good.

 

I'm hoping someone could suggest ideal settings for my particular system (...Luckily, I am only wanting to run at 1920x1080, and am absolutely fine disabling things like heat blur, etc).

 

My system:

 

Intel i7 920 (2.67gHz) (Not overclocked)

Win7 Premium

12 Gigs RAM

NVidia 1060 3G

Virtually empty 2 gig secondary drive (new) for DCS install

TrackIR + X52Pro

 

 

I have several things set off or low. Not sure what would cause the CTD... GPU memory running out? If so, what do I need to turn down to help that?

 

This issue is only with the Gulf map.

 

Could someone advise me on ideal settings for my setup? Thanks!

 

 

there is also an odd circumstance that has been noted in the past, that PG map uses an additional core compared to Caucus Map and runs it pretty hard... havent seen any explanation for it... but it does seem to still run that way...

[Laer]

@Rudel_chw: I believe this PC can only go up to 16gigs of RAM. I'll be buying new RAM, as it's currently at a reasonable price, apparently. I'll have a talk with the guys at the store, to have them verify what is actually usable on my system. Kind of a drag that I can only improve it by 4gigs, but I'm sure that will help in some way, with this and other sims.

 

 

@DflippinK: Hi, thanks for the response. Wow, good community so far! I really appreciate the kind/useful responses. Ya, my CPU is definitely the weakest link... an older 920 i7 (2.67), but I'm stuck with it, as I think I could only upgrade to maybe a 2.8... which seems hardly worth it. I haven't monitored the CPU use while playing DCS, oddly enough... So, that's going to be my next test. I'm curious to see how they are coping.

 

 

 

@Both of you guys: The preload slider was full right (...oops. Ya, I thought that might help the occassional stutter, but didn't factor in that it would require serious RAM!). I tried bringing it down to various levels, and then monitored the RAM use (via the Resource Monitor), and found that I was easily able to prevent the in-flight CTD, but oddly enough, rgardless of how low (down to virtually full left slider) I set the preload, DCS would seem to use almost all my RAM (leaving about 32megs).

 

 

Does DCS just always use maximum RAM (...figuring, if it's there, why not use it)? Or, does setting the preload give it a hard ceiling for how much RAM to use?

 

 

I suppose that if it's running fine, then I shouldn't chase the numbers so much (...it's just a bit distressing, for some reason, to see the memory usage graph virtually maxed out).

 

 

NEW: Although the in-flight CTD seems to be solved (by me pulling back the preload slider to something that wasn't stupidly ambitous), I do find that DCS does seem to CTD now when I EXIT the flight (go to the menu). That's a new one. Not sure what that is about. I'll have to look into that further, but any advice/info on that is obviously appreciated!

[Rudel_chw]

@Rudel_chw: I believe this PC can only go up to 16gigs of RAM. I'll be buying new RAM, as it's currently at a reasonable price, apparently. I'll have a talk with the guys at the store, to have them verify what is actually usable on my system. Kind of a drag that I can only improve it by 4gigs, but I'm sure that will help in some way, with this and other sims.

 

Regarding your PC ram, the Intel series 9xx used something called triple-channel for the memory access, so the memory on your pc goes in multiples of 3, rather than multiples of 2 like on newer PCs ... so, you can have 3 sticks of 2 GB for a total of 6, or 3 sticks of 4 GB for a total of 12, etc. This type of PC usually has 6 slots of memory, so I believe that the maximum ram on your case is most likely 6 * 4 = 24 GB. Make sure the guys of the store understand about these older machines before letting them mess with your baby :)

 

Best regards

[Laer]

Good call, Rudel_chw!

 

 

I found this online:

 

 

The Gateway TBGM-01 uses the Intel LGA 1366/Socket B CPU socket. Any compatible Intel CPU will have the same socket entry. It uses the DDR3 memory type, with maximum speeds of up to 1333 MHz, and 6 DDR3 slots allowing for a maximum total of 24 GB RAM.

 

 

So, that's good news.

 

 

I'm still unclear on how DCS uses RAM... as it SEEMS to (near) max out, regardless of what I set the preload to. Not sure if (as I said) it 'uses everything that is free to use'... and if that's a good or bad thing (...Does it stop before maxing out?)

 

 

DCS actually claims it only needs (minimally) 8gigs (16 for 'heavy missions', which I'm not doing... currently, at least). So, my 12 SHOULD be okay... theoretically.

 

 

But, if getting more RAM helps somehow, I'm all for that, since the CPU is pretty much stuck... other than overclocking...which is something I have never tried, and it intimidates the heck out of me. Apparently, this CPU has been pushed to 4GHz. I'd be happy with 3! Even 2.8 would be an improvement, as some other games/sims seem to have that as a minimum.

[Rudel_chw]

I'm still unclear on how DCS uses RAM... as it SEEMS to (near) max out, regardless of what I set the preload to. Not sure if (as I said) it 'uses everything that is free to use'... and if that's a good or bad thing (...Does it stop before maxing out?)

 

When I had 16 GB of Ram, DCS would use almost all of it, like this:

 

 

I upped my ram to 32 GB and it now uses about 18 GB, so it doesnt really seem to use all that is available. However, back when I had 16, my performance was marred by stuttering even tough my fps were quite reasonable for my old GPU, after the increase to 32 the stuttering almost disappeared, so the memory upgrade was very worthwhile for me.

 

DCS actually claims it only needs (minimally) 8gigs (16 for 'heavy missions', which I'm not doing... currently, at least). So, my 12 SHOULD be okay... theoretically.

 

My belief is that the minimum is actually a bare minimum and newer modules like the F14 and the Persian Gulf map, require more RAM.

 

But, if getting more RAM helps somehow, I'm all for that, since the CPU is pretty much stuck... other than overclocking...which is something I have never tried, and it intimidates the heck out of me. Apparently, this CPU has been pushed to 4GHz. I'd be happy with 3! Even 2.8 would be an improvement, as some other games/sims seem to have that as a minimum.

 

Your cpu is quite old by now, dating from 2008, so no amount of overclocking is gonna make a really significant difference ... on the other hand a new cpu like, say, a core i5 8600 is more than twice as fast (on single thread performance) as your current one.

 

But replacing the cpu, means replacing motherboard and ram as well (the current ones use ddr4 memory) so it is a costly upgrade .. upgrading the ddr3 ram using 2nd hand components is much cheaper in comparison and can ease the pain while you save for a bigger upgrade :)

 

Best regards

[Laer]

Ah, so it seems like it caps at 18gigs RAM, I guess.

 

 

I'd be getting 16 or 24, I think...

 

 

I was surprised to see that it was fairly common to overclock a i7 920. I would have thought I'd be in the 'can't be done' category.

 

 

I wouldn't expect miracles... it would just be nice to get a bit of a boost. Even bring it up to 2.8gHz, which seems to be the minimum for several games. Apparently, some people went up to 4gHz, which I would have thought impossible.

 

 

Ya, upgrading would be an all or nothing scenario. Upgrading one thing pretty much requires all the other things to be upgraded out of necessity. Heck, even my OS would have to be upgraded, as the newer motherboards apparently require Win10 (...ugh).

 

 

I was considering getting a whole new system if I got this upcoming 3D modelling job, but the whole show fell through, so that ain't happening. I'm back to having to be somewhat cautious with my spending now.... :( Still may happen, though. I'm just being responsible!

 

 

 

The performance seems good in DCS, though... Sure, some microstutters, but otherwise very good. I just don't know what's going on with the CTD that happens now when I QUIT the flight and go to the main menu.

 

 

I got good FPS in XPlane11 (and even better now that I added a dynamic LOD adjuster, as well as a plugin that allows me to tweek specific graphic elements, like XPlane10 did). The IL2 Great Battles modules are running nicely, too. I'm actually surprised. Pretty much all my games are running well (with generally high graphics settings).

[Rudel_chw]

... Heck, even my OS would have to be upgraded, as the newer motherboards apparently require Win10 (...ugh).

...

 

Ha ... I hate Microsoft with a passion for this, as there is no technical reason for an old operating system not being able to run on a new cpu ... they actually made an innocuous looking windows update that, once installed, prevents further windows updates from being applied and instead shows a banner telling the user to get windows 10.

 

Fortunately, there is a patch that reverses this update, so I’m able to still run my Windows 8.1 on my new cpu ... more info here:

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/69018-user-made-patch-restores-windows-update-blocked-processors.html

 

It is actually pretty incredible that Microsoft was able to get away with this without any regulatory agency punishing them for it ... grrr. :(

[Laer]

Oh, good. I was worried you'd be one of those guys who is stunned and whole-heartedly criticizes me for not wanting to go to Win10! :thumbup:

 

 

So, I played the PG pa again last night, trying different pre-load settings.

 

 

It seems if I have it full low, I get bad freezes/stutters. If I go full high, I get random CTD during flight (...no surprise). Anything in between, seems to work, but I usually CTD when EXITING the flight and going to the main menu. So, no perfect solution so far... aside from maybe buying more RAM.

 

 

Really, the only thing stopping me there, is that I'd probably get 24 (with the old RAM that is compatible with this old machine).... which I then couldn't really use if I get a full, new system. So a bit of a double RAM purchase there. But, if I'm not getting the new system any time soon (if no big work project rolls in), then I guess the RAM is a relatively inexpensive fix, which may benefit some of the other games/apps.

 

 

But, ya, oddly enough, all my sims are running very nicely (DCS... aside from the new PG CTDs, XPlane11, IL2 Great Battles, Project Cars1&2, etc). For a system with an i7 920, old RAM and motherboard, and only SATA drives, it's actually performing surprisingly well. I think XPlane was (originally) the only thing I had to turn down settings (which I wanted high) down a bit... but that changed now, with my new graphics card (which is surprising, since the desired graphics settings I was limiting were really CPU related things).

 

 

That, and the fact that this PC is probably over 10 years old! That's pretty impressive!

 

 

Okay, well I am seriously considering following through with the RAM, as I think that's the best (only?) solution for the PG map... and RAM prices are relatively low now.

 

 

Thanks again for all your efforts and help, Rudel_chw. Very much appreciated, and it is really great talking with you. I wish this forum had one of those 'Like' or 'Kudo' features, so I could bump up your status, as you are really a very positive contributer to this community.

 

 

Probably talk with you again, soon!

[Laer]

New question: For a 12gig RAM system, is there a specific number setting for the Preload slider that I should have it set to? A sweet spot, at least?

 

 

I obviously don't want to set it too high, but at the same time, I also don't want to set it to low (and reduce performance or something).

[Rudel_chw]

Oh, good. I was worried you'd be one of those guys who is stunned and whole-heartedly criticizes me for not wanting to go to Win10! :thumbup:

 

:) I actually tried windows 10 during three months, but couldnt get used to it.. I hated that it would update whenever it felt like it, turning off all of its spying features was difficult, and some older devices didnt had good drivers ... so opted to return to windows 8.1 that works very reliably for me.

 

Really, the only thing stopping me there, is that I'd probably get 24 (with the old RAM that is compatible with this old machine).... which I then couldn't really use if I get a full, new system. So a bit of a double RAM purchase there.

 

That’s why I suggested to purchase second hand ram, no point on buying brand news components that are already obsolete.

 

You could buy six 4 GB ddr3 sticks and then sell your own 2 gb sticks to cover part of the upgrade cost.

 

When you finally purchase a new PC, you can sell your current rig to recover part of the cost, and selling a 24gb unit should be easier than selling a 12 gb one

 

Thanks again for all your efforts and help, Rudel_chw. Very much appreciated, and it is really great talking with you...

 

You are welcome, I´m just returning all the help that I’ve received on this forum from other more exoerienced users, like FunkyFranky, Uboats, Hardcard, ciribob, and so many others that I’m surely forgetting to mention.

 

New question: For a 12gig RAM system, is there a specific number setting for the Preload slider that I should have it set to? A sweet spot, at least?

 

I really dont know, as I’ve 32 gb myself and so have the preload set to 100% ... hope someone else has experience with that.

 

Best regards