Kh-31 on Su-25T

[Mechanist]

 

Two dummy Kh-31 are mounted here on the T8M-10, the prototype of the Su-25T. These missiles are used for training purposes, with other words they simulate the employment of the real ones. This means, that for proper usgae the on-board systems for the missile have to be integrated into the weapon systems of the aircraft, so this aircraft should also be capable of employing the real Kh31.

These dummys are also used on aircrafts, which do have the Kh31 in their selectable weapon list.

[Alfa]

Hello Mechanist,

 

Good observation :)

 

First a clarification should be made concerning the "Kh-31" - this weapon exists both in the Kh-31P anti-radar version(passive radar homing) and the Kh-31A anti-ship version(active radar homing).

 

The Kh-31A anti-ship version requires a radar with air-to-surface modes for target designation - only the Su-25TM("Su-39") version has such a radar("Kopyo-25") installed in an external pod.

 

The Kh-31 version compatible with the Su-25T is the Kh-31P anti radiation missile. The onboard system required for this is the L-150/SPO-32 "Pastel" RWS, which has the ability to pass on target data to the Kh-31P. However, the "Pastel" RWS is not modelled for the Su-25T in Lock-on 1.1 - I believe, due insufficient data on this system being available.

 

The RWS modelled for the Su-25T is the older SPO-15 "Beryoza", which has no such capability, so for SEAD operations, an external designator pod called L-081 "Fantasmagoria" is carried for supporting the Kh-58 and Kh-25MPU anti-radiation missiles.

 

P.S. Those are very nice photos of the Su-25T.....you wouldnt happen to have those in larger size? :)

[Mechanist]

P.S. Those are very nice photos of the Su-25T.....you wouldnt happen to have those in larger size? :)

Sorry, this is the largest size :(

The RWS modelled for the Su-25T is the older SPO-15 "Beryoza", which has no such capability, so for SEAD operations, an external designator pod called L-081 "Fantasmagoria" is carried for supporting the Kh-58 and Kh-25MPU anti-radiation missiles.

 

I found this about Fantasmagoria-B / L-081 here:

"External pod, provides emitter location/classification data for Kh-58 and Kh-31 ARMs. The two pods cover different bands. There may be a third pod designated Fantasmagoria-C."

 

If it's true, it may be interesting.

 

The Kh-31 version compatible with the Su-25T is the Kh-31P anti radiation missile. The onboard system required for this is the L-150/SPO-32 "Pastel" RWS, which has the ability to pass on target data to the Kh-31P. However, the "Pastel" RWS is not modelled for the Su-25T in Lock-on 1.1 - I believe, due insufficient data on this system being available.

Any informations about this L-150/SPO-32 "Pastel" RWS "problem" fix in a patch?

[Chizh]

Actually Su-25TM have a problem with Kh-31 missiles. The matter is that for normal accelerating for the cruise direct-flow engine start speed, speed of the carrier during the launch should be more 0,6 M even taking into account solid start-booster. Till now these missiles for low-speed planes are not approved yet.

[britgliderpilot]

Actually Su-25TM have a problem with Kh-31 missiles. The matter is that for normal accelerating for the cruise direct-flow engine start speed, speed of the carrier during the launch should be more 0,6 M even taking into account solid start-booster. Till now these missiles for low-speed planes are not approved yet.

 

 

. . . . Interesting.

 

Leads into another question - how does the speed and agility of the Su25T compare to the Su25 currently modelled in Lomac v1.02?

 

That aircraft, even when quite heavily laden, is capable of achieving speeds in excess of Mach 0.6 - as the Mach buffet above about M 0.75 shows.

[Mechanist]

So, the answer is no. :cry:

But we still have the Kh-58! :wink:

[Alfa]

Hi Mechanist,

 

I dont think you can derrive from what Chizh said, that the Pastel is a "no go" - only that the Kh-31 missiles arent the most logical choice for Su-25 versions due to high speed launch condition required for starting the ramjet sustainer engine of the missile(good point BTW) :) .

 

However, for clarification - the SPO-32 "Pastel" is a very advanced radar warning system developed in the late eighties for the MiG-29M/K and Su-27M(Su-35) multirole fighters, and actually forms the basis and control for an automated countermeasures suite - also including the Gardeniya-1 FU jamming station.

 

On these fighters detailed threat information is displayed "on-screen"(on MFD) and accompanied by audible warnings in high threat situations, while the system automatically activates the jammer and launch countermeassures(chaff/flares) when necessary.

 

In other words a very complex system involving a lot of things and not something you can just "add" in a patch ;) .

 

To be honest I am not sure just how the "Pastel" system is integrated on the Su-25T/Su-25TM and in what capacity - e.g. these jets only have a single rather simple CRT display for the Shkval system, so some simplification must have been made at least in the way it presents the threat environment to the pilot.

[Mechanist]

Hi Alfa

 

Thanks for those informations! :wink:

I learned much about the Kh-31, thanks to this topic :)

 

I have only one question left:

How can the Su-24M use the Kh-31A and P?

Maybe whit the L-081?

 

I can understand the teams point of view: if we have not the realistic way to use the Kh-31 ,then it is not going to be added in the 1.1.

 

It is a good point of view, i think :wink:

[Shepski]

. . . . Interesting.

 

Leads into another question - how does the speed and agility of the Su25T compare to the Su25 currently modelled in Lomac v1.02?

 

That aircraft, even when quite heavily laden, is capable of achieving speeds in excess of Mach 0.6 - as the Mach buffet above about M 0.75 shows.

 

Hi Brit!

 

Put it this way...

 

One word from a real Su-25 pilot... "cow".

 

Have fun flying the Sukhoi "cow" in standard and -T breeds. :)

 

You guys will see just how much drag a lot of these large stores like the gunpods and KH-58 will actually create and how it will affect the handling and performance of the jet.

 

Overspeed buffeting is dynamic and the speed at which the buffeting occurs depends on what is slung under the wings.

 

Cheers

[Андрей_Андреевич]

Actually Su-25TM have a problem with Kh-31 missiles. The matter is that for normal accelerating for the cruise direct-flow engine start speed, speed of the carrier during the launch should be more 0,6 M even taking into account solid start-booster. Till now these missiles for low-speed planes are not approved yet.

Interestingly, I did hear about that.

It is caused that that engines half-direct-flow, as well as at other missile of these class, should be accelerate up to certain speed,at which will start to work half-direct-flow(combined) engine.Missile has not enough capacity of powder accelerators.???

[Chizh]

Interestingly, I did hear about that.

It is caused that that engines half-direct-flow, as well as at other missile of these class, should be accelerate up to certain speed,at which will start to work half-direct-flow(combined) engine.Missile has not enough capacity of powder accelerators.???

Yes. The booster guarantees a missile acceleration for start ram-jet speed only since speed of launch more than 0,6 M.

[Андрей_Андреевич]

Interestingly, I did hear about that.

It is caused that that engines half-direct-flow, as well as at other missile of these class, should be accelerate up to certain speed,at which will start to work half-direct-flow(combined) engine.Missile has not enough capacity of powder accelerators.???

Yes. The booster guarantees a missile acceleration for start ram-jet speed only since speed of launch more than 0,6 M.

Thank, and what range altitude at Kh-31, "from" and "up to"? What maximal altitude???

[Alfa]

 

Thank, and what range altitude at Kh-31, "from" and "up to"? What maximal altitude???

 

Hi,

 

I am not sure I understood your question properly, but the following is stated for the Kh-31 versions(both -P and -A):

 

Maximum launch altitude: 15.000 m

Minimum launch altitude: 500 m

 

Maximum range(app.): 110 km

Minimum launch range: 15 km

 

-JJ.

[Андрей_Андреевич]

 

Thank, and what range altitude at Kh-31, "from" and "up to"? What maximal altitude???

 

Hi,

 

I am not sure I understood your question properly, but the following is stated for the Kh-31 versions(both -P and -A):

 

Maximum launch altitude: 15.000 m

Minimum launch altitude: 500 m

 

Maximum range(app.): 110 km

Minimum launch range: 15 km

 

-JJ.

 

 

Excuse me for my English:) I do not have time normally learn English, sorry ;)

 

Yes you have correctly understood my question, I wanted to know that. (look below)

--------

Maximum launch altitude: 15.000 m

Minimum launch altitude: 500 m

--------

Thank.