F/A-18C Hornet M61A2 LW Vulcan Ammunition

[Spartan0536]

Hello fellow Hornet Drivers,

 

Just a little background on me, I do ballistics work for the ArmA III community on projects like NIArms/HLC, SMA, RHS, EricJ, and I even contributed to the ACE III team. I have also been a ballistics developer and military hardware consultant for other games like Occupation Source and the Modern Warfare mod for World In Conflict, and am being considered for a paid developer position doing ballistics for Ground Branch, details still being worked out on that position currently.

 

As for my suggestion, it has come to my attention that while the Hornet is still in Early Access (like so many of the modules in DCS) and stuff like ammunition for the gun is WIP, I saw that the F-16C had quite a selection of 20mm ammunition and the Hornet just gets Default and No Tracer, this got me interested in finding out if the USAF, USN, and USMC use different ammunition, in fact they DON'T both use the same DODIC ammunition from 2 suppliers Orbital ATK (Now completely merged with Northrop Grumman) and General Dynamics. It is confirmed that the F/A-18C uses both the M50 and PGU series of munitions, I can not attest to the F-16C as my research was entirely focused on the F/A-18C, but both services do use the same DODIC ordering information that much is confirmed.

 

Here is a list of ammunition that a F/A-18C Lot 20 would use:

 

M50 Series:

M55A2 Target Practice (TP)

M220 Target Practice Tracer (TP-T)

M56A4 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI)

M242 High Explosive Incendiary Tracer (HEI-T)

 

PGU Series:

PGU-27 A/B Target Practice (TP)

PGU-30 A/B Target Practice Tracer (TP-T)

PGU-28 A/B Semi-Armor Piercing High Explosive Incendiary (SAPHEI)

 

 

 

Here I will provide detailed information with links included to back up my claims, despite what people might think (and have told me in the past) this information is NOT CLASSIFIED, it is publicly sourced and all information is official.

 

F/A-18C Hornet M61A2 Lightweight Vulcan Official Information from General Dynamics: https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/F-A-18-C-D.pdf

 

General Overview of the rounds via NavyBMR (training program): http://navybmr.com/study%20material/14313a/14313A_ch7.pdf

 

M55A2 & M220 Official Information via Northrop Grumman: https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/MedCalAmmunition/Documents/20mmM55A2TPFactSheet.pdf

 

M56A4 HEI (M56 Series) Official Information via Northrop Grumman: https://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/MedCalAmmunition/Documents/20mmM56HEIFactSheet.pdf

 

M242 HEI-T Orbital ATK (defunct) Official Information: http://212.178.67.161/ftp/20mmcollector/20mm/HEI/20_102_M242_HEIT_ATD.pdf

 

PGU-27 A/B TP Official Information via General Dynamics: https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20mm-PGU-27-A-B-F-15.pdf

 

PGU-30 A/B TP-T Official Information via General Dynamics: https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20mm-PGU-30-A-B-F-18.pdf

 

PGU-28 A/B SAPHEI Official Information via General Dynamics: https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20mm-PGU-28-A-B-F-16.pdf

 

 

In all honestly the only 3 rounds we would "need" would be the M56A4 HEI, M242 HEI-T, and the PGU-28A/B SAPHEI, but I included the training rounds to fill out the list based on authenticity. I hope that "Wags" or other developers for the DCS F/A-18C module see this post and are able to use the information within to polish off the ammunition selection, each of these rounds impacts targets differently, and we are currently able to switch from M50 to PGU ammunition in the Hornet so that functionality is already there, this just completes that "subsystem".

Edited October 8, 2019 by Spartan0536
Typographical Errors

[Spartan0536]

Could a moderator please edit the thread name from "F/A-16C Hornet M61A2 LW Vulcan Ammunition"

 

to

 

"F/A-18C Hornet M61A2 LW Vulcan Ammunition"

 

Thanks :)

[NeilWillis]

Could a moderator please edit the thread name from "F/A-16C Hornet M61A2 LW Vulcan Ammunition"

 

to

 

"F/A-18C Hornet M61A2 LW Vulcan Ammunition"

 

Thanks :)

 

Not a good start :megalol: :megalol:

 

Out of interest, are the ballistic characteristics so different that it warrants stopping development at this stage to incorporate this before we get - say ground radar for both F/A-18C and F-16CM or maybe HARM for the F-16CM?

 

Just curious...

 

But if you mean "will we get a variety of ammunition for the guns at some point in the future?" You only have to ask. Qualifications in other computer games aren't really required for that dear chap.

[Spartan0536]

Not a good start :megalol: :megalol:

 

Out of interest, are the ballistic characteristics so different that it warrants stopping development at this stage to incorporate this before we get - say ground radar for both F/A-18C and F-16CM or maybe HARM for the F-16CM?

 

Just curious...

 

But if you mean "will we get a variety of ammunition for the guns at some point in the future?" You only have to ask. Qualifications in other computer games aren't really required for that dear chap.

 

 

F/A-16C :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:, I should be flogged for this offense.

 

The ballistic characteristics are questionable at best as all we get is Default and No Tracer, there is absolutely no mention if this is M50 or PGU and if it's just training ammo or HEI/SAPHEI

 

There is a distinct performance difference between the M50 and PGU munitions, so much so that you need to select the correct one when you are using the GUN mode on the F/A-18C.

 

As for stopping all other development, that would not be necessary, but a change to incorporate just 3 of those rounds namely being the M56A4 HEI, M242 HEI-T, and the PGU-28A/B SAPHEI would certainly be a welcome addition and would satiate most people even through full development as it gives people real combat loading's based on mission parameters.

 

Regarding my "credentials" I like to post them as every forum I tend to post on gets at least 1 person that goes "nuh uh, you idiot, you don't know what you are talking about, GTFO scrub", posting those credentials adds some validity to my statements, the actual validity comes from sources of course.

[Northstar98]

+1 Absolutely

 

It's really nice to see some reference material too - hopefully this should correct the tracer colours currently seen in the hornet

[Shuenix]

Yeah. It would be nice to make some damage to armoured vehicles.

[tech_op2000]

+1 from the future. I love the SAPHEI rounds in the f16. They have so much more stopping power.

Seeing that the f18 gun has a selector for whether it is using PGU or M50 makes me want them even more.

The Hornet Default rounds are listed as 20mm HE if you spectate them. 

Please ED, Give us the rounds!
 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by tech_op2000

[BarTzi]

Are you sure the default round in not SAPHEI already?

Anyways- this was taken in 2006, and the plane was loaded with 500 SAPHEI rounds (the writing is lcoated right and slightly down from the 411 number on the nose), so I think we should have the option.

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by BarTzi

[tech_op2000]

9 hours ago, BarTzi said:

Are you sure the default round in not SAPHEI already?

 

Am I sure? No. What I can tell you is:
-The F18 has 2 gun ammo options: "Default" and "No Tracers"
-If you fire rounds and spectate them, they just say "20mm HE"

-The bullets do very little damage to ground targets.

 

The f16 on the other hand has as ammo choices:

           HEI-T High Explosive Incendiary-Tracer
           HEI High Explosive Incendiary

           AP Armor Piercing
           TP Target Practice-Tracer

           SAPHEI High Explosive Armor Piercing PGU
           TP Target Practice-Tracer PGU
 

- By Default it uses "SAPHEI High Explosive Armor Piercing PGU"

- The f16s gun can kill most ground targets with a few gun round hits.
 

I think that info is enough to say with some certainty that the f16 does use SAPHEI. Your welcome to draw your own conclusions about the hornet ammo but for me I don't think the f18 is using SAPHEI by default, or if it is using it, the round is significantly less powerful when used in the simulator's f18s. 

I stand by my request to have f16 SAPHEI ammo in the f18 since it can and does carry it IRL 
 

[tech_op2000]

Hey look friends! The hornet got new ammo types. This one snuck under the radar for me. Anyone here know what update it got added or when?

[Tholozor]

2 minutes ago, tech_op2000 said:

Anyone here know what update it got added or when?

This one: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/changelog/openbeta/2.7.6.12852/

[tech_op2000]

Thanks @Tholozor.   It's cool to see when Wishlist items like these make it into the sim!