Cupra Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 I found a strange behavior on the canopy jettison handle. If I have the seat armed and drop the canopy during flight my pilot stays inside the jet… that is not correct, because the canopy would fire the pilot out of the jet :megalol: Short explanation on F-16 rescue system: The Eject/Handle does NOT fire the seat out of the cockpit. The only thing the handle does is firering to pyros on front of the seat that start 2 other pyros on front of the canopy. The canopy will get released and on the end of the canopy are 2 wires that go into the seat and they start the ejection sequence. Because of this reason you NEVER arm your seat during ground operations. If something happens and the securitz personal has to remove the canopy from outside with the jettision option.... :megalol: :lol: DCS F-16C Blk. 40/42 :helpsmilie: Candidate - 480th VFS - Cupra | 06
Fjordmonkey Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Not correct. You can jettison the canopy without initiating ejection of the seat. You have a canopy jettison-handle on the outer side of the lefhand console. Pull the main or backup ejection handles (between your knees and on the righthand side of the seat, respectively, and you'll leave the premises of the cockpit about a second or so later. Pulling the ejection-handle on the ground is done if safe egress cannot be completed in a timely enough manner to save the pilot. If poop really hits the fan, the priority is for the pilot to get out safe and fast. If that entails the fun event of a zero-zero ejection, then so be it. In case of a fire, pilots have the option of either raising the canopy manually or blowing it off, and then egressing the aircraft over the nose. You don't want to drop down the side of the jet, expecially if it's running, since there's quite a bit of a blowjob waiting for you even at idle power. But again, if poop has really hit the fan and there's a definite risk to the pilot, ejection will happen. Easier to replace the aircraft than the pilot, anyway. You don't pull the handle on the ground even IF the seat is safed unless you have a damn good reason to AND is strapped in properly. That's one of the first things you're taught as a groundcrew on the Viper. A few reasons for that, one of which is that there has been incidents over the years where the spline that holds the arming-pin to the arming-handle having been broken, which leads the seat to be armed even if the arming-handle is in the safe position. Pull the handle, and off you go into the wild blue yonder. Or the shelter/hangar-roof, whichever comes first. Another reason is that unless memory fails me, pulling the handle means activating the sequencer for the ejection-system. If that were to malfunction in any way (short-circuit or even a big enough jolt to the aircraft), the seat could very well fire with the predictably bad results that an out-of-posture ejection entails (broken spine/neck, loss of limbs and other fun effects of such events), plus of course the whole issue of you suddenly being 60-70 meters into the air without being connected to the parachute. Tends to have a very negative effect on your life-expectancy when you inevitably come back down. There's a small inspection-hole on the righthand side of the seat that anyone entering the cockpit, groundcrew or pilot alike, will check. If there's a pin in the hole, that means the sequencer has fired. This again means that you exit the cockpit and the aircraft VERY carefully (the seat will fire straight into your chest if it fires, since you're coming into the 'pit from the lefthand side and thus are leaning over it to check the hole), and the aircraft is cordoned off for anything from two to six hours while you wait for the battery in the sequencer to run out of juice. After that the Weapons/Egress-people move in and removes the seat even more carefully than they normally do. You don't mess around with things that can and will violently kill you if given half a chance. Edited October 10, 2019 by ShadowXP Regards Fjordmonkey Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone. I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.
Cupra Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 So those wires do not fire the seat even if it is set to ARM? How does the seat make the difference between wires pulled by the canopy for real eject or not? Or does the canopy jettison handle also cut off the wires to the sequence starter? Must have a closer look to my seat this weekend... DCS F-16C Blk. 40/42 :helpsmilie: Candidate - 480th VFS - Cupra | 06
Fjordmonkey Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 So those wires do not fire the seat even if it is set to ARM? How does the seat make the difference between wires pulled by the canopy for real eject or not? Or does the canopy jettison handle also cut off the wires to the sequence starter? Must have a closer look to my seat this weekend... From what I know, even if the seat is armed and the canopy jettison is pulled, the seat shouldn't fire. The seat is still live, however, and and will fire if you yank the primary or backup handles. Regards Fjordmonkey Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone. I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.
Deano87 Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 Shadow... All your talk of seats going off at inopportune moments (into hangars, while being removed etc) gives me the chills. I've flown on a live seat a couple of times and I remember it being an extremely focusing moment once the seat was live and I realised I was sitting on a rocket and all that separated me from one hell of a ride was that little yellow handle. :shocking: Proud owner of: PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring. My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
Fjordmonkey Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 Shadow... All your talk of seats going off at inopportune moments (into hangars, while being removed etc) gives me the chills. I've flown on a live seat a couple of times and I remember it being an extremely focusing moment once the seat was live and I realised I was sitting on a rocket and all that separated me from one hell of a ride was that little yellow handle. :shocking: We got served enough horror-stories about what happens when the seat malfunctions, including one where the seat and occupant slammed into the ceiling of a full-sized maint' hangar large enough hard enough to partially poke through and stick there. No idea whether it was true or not, and I didn't bother finding out. Of course, given how fast and high the seat is designed to go should give an indicator of the power they have. Humans are squishy as hell and we lose the fight every time. There's a reason as to why one of the first things you're taught is that the aircraft can and will kill you instantly if it gets the chance to, and that it doesn't care if you die. You treat the seat as live and armed at any given time until and unless you've verified that it's safe, and even then you treat it with respect. Regards Fjordmonkey Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone. I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.
Bouli306 Posted October 11, 2019 Posted October 11, 2019 I found a strange behavior on the canopy jettison handle. If I have the seat armed and drop the canopy during flight my pilot stays inside the jet… that is not correct, because the canopy would fire the pilot out of the jet :megalol: Short explanation on F-16 rescue system: The Eject/Handle does NOT fire the seat out of the cockpit. The only thing the handle does is firering to pyros on front of the seat that start 2 other pyros on front of the canopy. The canopy will get released and on the end of the canopy are 2 wires that go into the seat and they start the ejection sequence. Because of this reason you NEVER arm your seat during ground operations. If something happens and the securitz personal has to remove the canopy from outside with the jettision option.... :megalol: :lol: It is more or less the other way around. If a pilot pulls the D-handle...normally the canopy will come off and when lanyards are pulled the seat is activated. But when he pulls the D-handle and nothing happens it is probably because the canopy is still on... So his options are: opening the canopy normally..so open spider guard (yellow handle canopy) and flicking the canopy switch up.....when the canopy opens only a tiny bit the airflow will catch the canopy and brake it off.. pulling the lanyards and immediately activating the seat (seat is already hot by pulling the D-handle) on the left console all the way to the back on th sidewall of the cockpit there is a little grey handle which he can turn so the canopy will open and same will happen as mentioned above. OR he could pull the canopy jettison handle and when the canopy is jettisoned the seat is immediately activated. probably so fast that I am always wondering where his fingers will be when the seat goes....
Fjordmonkey Posted October 11, 2019 Posted October 11, 2019 Probably so fast that I am always wondering where his fingers will be when the seat goes.... I've noticed something in the sim: If you pull the main handle with the seat safed and then arm the seat, the seat will fire. Since the seat-sequencer is active at that point, I'd think that the same would happen if one was stupid enough to do this in real life? Regards Fjordmonkey Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone. I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.
Bouli306 Posted October 11, 2019 Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) I've noticed something in the sim: If you pull the main handle with the seat safed and then arm the seat, the seat will fire. Since the seat-sequencer is active at that point, I'd think that the same would happen if one was stupid enough to do this in real life? That is actually incorrect. The seat safe lever mechanically won't let you pull the D ring. So I think you discovered a bug here. Edited October 11, 2019 by Bouli306
DarkStar Posted October 11, 2019 Posted October 11, 2019 Because of this reason you NEVER arm your seat during ground operations. If something happens and the securitz personal has to remove the canopy from outside with the jettision option.... :megalol: :lol: Absolutely wrong, the seat is armed no later than entering the runway for takeoff. And how it looks jettisoning the canopy while on ground:
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