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Posted

Hi all,

 

I have a question about the way different brands of flightsticks work.

 

Currently I have an X56 stick, and I am a bit dissapointed by the general way it has been built.

 

What it comes down to is that it has a pressure plate that is pushed down into a "dish".

If you move the stick in the X or Y direction, the plate has to move up, which compresses the spring, thus pushing back against your hand movement.

 

My problem with this system is that once the spring is compressed by for example a Y movement, it is possible to roll the plate along the dish with very little resistance as the spring stays equally compressed.

In other words, moving in the X axis when Y is neutral takes more effort than moving in the X axis when simultaneously moving Y closer to neutral.

 

The system works well if you want to make a lot of single axis movements, but especially when flying helos I find myself struggling with twitchy and overshooting movements.

 

So I was wondering whether this is also the case with other sticks, or whether they use a different hardware mechanism; or perhaps this effect is exaggerated when the plate is a bit too tight, which is another problem which I try to alleviate with some grease now and then....

Posted

The Virpil bases use independent mechanisms to create the forces for the X and Y axes. I would assume that other competitors in this price range (VKB) do the same.

 

I started with a TM Warthog stick and throttle a few years ago and recently upgraded the base to a Virpil MongoosT-50CM2.

 

I never paid attention to the issue you described, so I just grabbed my TM Warthog base out of storage and did a quick test. On my Virpil base, the force required to move the X axis stays exactly the same no matter where the Y axis is at (as far as I can tell by feel; the increased total force required to hold the stick while deflecting two axes makes it feel like moving the X axis requires slightly more force when Y is deflected). On the TM Warthog, there is a very clear difference in the force required to move the X axis between a neutral and a fully deflected Y axis: moving the X axis requires a lot less force when Y is deflected away from the neutral position.

 

That (in addition to the continuously adjustable spring tension) explains why flying helicopters is that much easier with the Virpil base even though the Warthog base also has very precise sensors.

Posted

Depends as you point out, on the design of the stick itself.

 

As for most budget sticks the single spring design is prevalent, and from what I gather the only stick in the $150 ish bracket that has independent axis movement would be the CH fighterstick.

 

Even the Warthog has the "single spring in a cup" design and would suffer similar issue.

And the fighterstick is missing quite a bit in terms of resolution and has noise and spiking issues, needed quite a lot of deadzone while I was using mine, as well as a noticeable "clunk" noise and feel as you pass zero.

 

This problem really isn't solved fully I believe unless you go for higher end sticks like the Virpil or VKB sticks, these have fully independent axes, and could even do differing force profiles on each axis if so desired.

The virpil stick for instance has no noticeable noise whatsoever, and I use no curves or deadzones in game at all, be it I'm flying jets or the Huey, even the gazelle is quite controllable with this stick.

i7 8700k @ 4.7, 32GB 2900Mhz, 1080ti, CV1

Virpil MT-50\Delta, MFG Crosswind, Warthog Throttle, Virptil Mongoost-50 throttle.

Posted (edited)

 

Indeed no axis separation on the X56, nor Warthog as you see here.

 

Nowadays we should look at VKB and Virpil gimbal.

Cheapest stick with axis separation to my knowledge is the VKB Gladiator.

 

Thanks everyone for the very interesting info!

 

the VKB gladiator seems interesting compared to the warthog especially considering its price.

 

Edit: looking a bit further, the idea with virpil is that you buy a base and a grip separately?

Then you end up somewhere around 300 euros for a stick, and the VKB has the gladiator for 100 euros or a "gunfighter" for 310 or 410 euros.

Any reason to pick one over the other?

Edited by malcheus
Posted

the VKB gladiator seems interesting compared to the warthog especially considering its price.

 

Edit: looking a bit further, the idea with virpil is that you buy a base and a grip separately?

Then you end up somewhere around 300 euros for a stick, and the VKB has the gladiator for 100 euros or a "gunfighter" for 310 or 410 euros.

Any reason to pick one over the other?

 

The VKB Gladiator is the "cheap" option from VKB. It doesn't use cam profile and so can't really be customised, also we can not mount other grip and the gimbal can't support extention.

We can upgrade the gimbal to allow SCG Kosmosima grip family to be mounted on it.

 

Other VKB base such as VKB Gladiator PRO and Gunfighter uses cam profile and allow to mount different grip. The Gunfighter is designed to be used with extention and so its base is sturdier and we can mount 2 springs per axes. We can also fine tune friction on each axes individually thanks to its Dry Clutch system.

 

All Virpil base uses cam profile and indeed everything is sold separately at Virpil. And TM Warthog and Hornet Grip are compatible with Virpil bases.

 

Any reason to pick one over the other?

 

The Gunfighter gimbal is way more customisable, allow the mounting of different grip, including Warthog with an adapter. And also Hornet with the same adapter + a bit of filing at the base of the Hornet grip. And it work both on desktop and with extension.

Posted

Mostly for helis you want no detent and no springiness, it's just force in the direction of control input needed

 

The best I have come up with so far. ;)

 

Based on other users input thus far.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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