[REPORTED]AI pathfinding Persian Gulf

[dimitriov]

Hi,

 

DCS 2.5.5.41962 Open Beta

 

Ground AI is properly inefficient in terms of pathfinding on Persian Gulf, leading it to do not be able to navigate properly through any village whatever being the size of a group, and even in plain would there be some little farm houses or hedges. This is a real issue since most groups end blocked somewhere. The workaround is to set many WP but once you're over 10 moving groups it causes huge FPS losses (And my rig is not the kind of those who usually suffer FPS losses).

 

This affects any vehicle type at any speed in any formation. Simply ask 5 different groups to make a circle shape path with 5 WP with an average 10 km lenght, you can try East of Shiraz in the YN07 plain.

 

Making at least hedges and separated compounds transparent for pathfinding would be the simplest and fastest solution.

 

Illustration : After 5 min of game, over 10 groups, 6 already were stuck would it be by a hedge or a simple house. After 20 minutes, every group was stuck somewhere. It is possible to design WP in order for themm to avoid villages, not single compounds or hedges.

 

The current pathfinding system is very strange as the usual behavior of the AI is not to avoid buildings but being "attracted" by them. They usually start rolling 10 m from it and suddenly turn toward it and end into them.

 

Same behavior is noticeable on Caucasus at a lower level though. PG currently is unsuitable for any kind of advanced ground mission making. This is a real showstopper and a huge reason why, for example in my squad, over 50 people only 15 bought the PG.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nicolas

Edited February 6, 2020 by dimitriov

[BIGNEWY]

Hi Nicolas

 

Do you have a Mission or track file showing this.

 

I will take a look.

 

Thanks

[dimitriov]

Hi,

 

Here you go for the miz, simply launch it, accelerate *3 or more and after 10 min count the stucked groups. I have 5 currenty using the diamond formation. I didn't wait again for 30 min but it'ws prettily clear that everyone will end stucked at the end.

 

 

Snif snif what's inside this Oleg ?

PG CA3.miz

Edited February 6, 2020 by dimitriov

[Pikey]

Group movement and coherency (not getting stuck) hasn't altered much over the years. I can reproduce this easily, but not consistently. The things that exacerbate the issue are

 

• Large group sizes (over three and probability goes up a lot)
  
• Wider formations like line abreast (not column, but can happen to columns)
  
• Going across terrain with objects like through towns when using "offroad". (objects such as a lampost will be enough)
  

What happens is that the larger the group, the more likeliehood an individual unit will get stuck pathing around a specific object whilst attempting to keep formation. It with then hold up the entire group or the group will continue and leave it spread which begins to break Group movement. Most of the time issueing a new move order will get the controller unstuck.

 

I've not attempt to use offroad across anything but open ground for years in DCS, it's not worth it. Stick to roads in urban areas, always keep groups small and avoid wide formations.

[BIGNEWY]

Pikey gives good advice.

 

We have these path finding and stuck AI issues reported to the team, and they are being currently worked on.

 

However it is not a simple issue, I will attach this post to our report.

 

thank you

[dimitriov]

I know it guys really and I understand that it's not as simple.

 

But I use extensively CA on Caucasus, fact is that AI goes through the trees and so never gets stuck. There are some issues sometimes in villages etc (actually quite common). But on Normandy too (just tested) AI will go through trees and hedges for obvious reasons. Here on PG, AI tries to avoid every tree and hedge, and so ends stuck really to quickly. It is not acceptable to say "well stick to roads", when you buy a map, particularily a Middle East map, there are not many roads (plus in urban areas, AI leaves the road in most turns and ends stuck in a house), so you simply can't assume that I will stick to this.

 

The more than 3 vehicles in a group is too well known yes, but again, I call this a workaround (and a painful one cause it takes far more time to create them and organize them properly, plus FPS cost as the more groups you have the most FPS you loose), not a fix. There is a real issue on this map.

 

I understand that it may take time but again, I use CA extensively, if I can say something to the devs it is : Make the trees and compounds transparent for pathfinding, it will not ruin any realism, simply make everyone's life far simpler. (Plus I never saw a 50 tons tank avoiding every 1m tall hedge it met) ;)

 

And again, this is a showstopper for 60% of my squad for example, the sole result of this is loosing customers which is sad as there is a lot of work on this map.

 

Thank you for the report Bignewy ;)

 

Nicolas

Edited February 6, 2020 by dimitriov

[Pikey]

I know it guys really and I understand that it's not as simple.

 

But I use extensively CA on Caucasus, fact is that AI goes through the trees and so never gets stuck. There are some issues sometimes in villages etc (actually quite common). But on Normandy too (just tested) AI will go through trees and hedges for obvious reasons. Here on PG, AI tries to avoid every tree and hedge, and so ends stuck really to quickly. It is not acceptable to say "well stick to roads", when you buy a map, particularily a Middle East map, there are not many roads (plus in urban areas, AI leaves the road in most turns and ends stuck in a house), so you simply can't assume that I will stick to this.

 

The more than 3 vehicles in a group is too well known yes, but again, I call this a workaround (and a painful one cause it takes far more time to create them and organize them properly, plus FPS cost as the more groups you have the most FPS you loose), not a fix. There is a real issue on this map.

 

I understand that it may take time but again, I use CA extensively, if I can say something to the devs it is : Make the trees and compounds transparent for pathfinding, it will not ruin any realism, simply make everyone's life far simpler. (Plus I never saw a 50 tons tank avoiding every 1m tall hedge it met) ;)

 

And again, this is a showstopper for 60% of my squad for example, the sole result of this is loosing customers which is sad as there is a lot of work on this map.

 

Thank you for the report Bignewy ;)

 

Nicolas

I completely support this post and any effort required to make vehicle movement reliable in DCS. This has been mentioned a few times before and I added to the post to increase visibility with the only thing I can do, which is state what you already know (although I didnt presume you did)

 

Now I think it needs emphasising, that this is more prevalent on PG map, because object avoidance appears to cause this phenomena, i did not notice this myself, but I think _that_ part of your report is very good to emphasise

 

Could we perhaps differentiate betweeen "general pathfinding" and PG pathfinding on compounds and smaller objects on PG, please BIGNEWY? Else the important part of what you said might get lost, I certianly didnt pick it up that way on a quick read.

[BIGNEWY]

I have made a separate report, if the AI especially armoured units could push through small tress or bushes I think it would help here, but I have asked the team to look at it.

 

thanks

[dimitriov]

Thank you very much for your work bignewy ;)

[BIGNEWY]

Thank you very much for your work bignewy ;)

 

No problem, thanks for caring enough to report :)