GBU Fusing?

[PSYKOnz]

through testing, I can't seem to get uniform results, what are the fusing settings for the GUB's sometimes they track some times they don't

 

nose, nose tail or doesn't matter?

 

GBU 10

GBU 12

GBU 16

GBU 24

 

apparently the 24s don't work at the moment but if it has changed what would the ideal setting be?

 

also, is there an ideal release window for them if so what?

[QuiGon]

Fusing has nothing to do with tracking. Fusing only affects when the bomb will explode or if it will explode at all. Tracking has nothing to do with it.

 

So what's actually your issue? Tracking or fusing?

 

For fusing I don't think it matters what fuse you select.

 

For tracking you need to make sure you have the correct laser code and laser is active.

 

The 24s are indeed not really implemented yet.

[shagrat]

I'm not sure the different fusing types currently matter in the Tomcat, but for realistic procedure and if they might add these details like in the Hornet, it is good practice to do it correct.

TL/DR: Set N/T as you want the tail-fuze armed.

Now a bit more detail. First, I am no specialist/armorer, I was in the German army and had some contact with munitions for tanks and most knowledge comes from reading manuals and information published by the military as available on the internet. With that out of the way, let's have a high level look at the different fuzing types.

Mechanical fuzes - usually contact fuze, that requires to hit something to detonate the bomb

Electrical fuzes - some type of battery/electricity dependend sensor or measurement equipment that uses parameters met to release a charge to detonate the bomb. Think: Air pressure for 200ft on the air pressure sensor reached, detonates a bomb in air-burst mode.

These basic types come in Nose or Tail versions IRL, but for DCS we can currently simply assume Nose uses only Mechanical Fuzes (MFuz) and Tail, as in real life, only Electrical Fuzes (EFuz). Now LGB use a laser guidance and steering kit, that puts a Laser seeker to the Nose and a gliding fin and EFuz assembly on the Tail. This allows for a timed delay for the bomb penetrating the walls of a building and detonating inside. That's why you need an EFuz and that is connected to the Tail, as the Nose would likely damage the Timer/Fuze on impact if it where placed in the Seeker-head. Same goes for JDAM btw. So in DCS you should always use Tail or Nose/Tail fuzing when arming any guided bomb units.

The CBU (Canister Bomb Units) for Cluster Munitions use EFuz, as well, to open the canister at a specific altitude and release the bomblets/submunitions. So these require Tail or N/T fuzing.

Nice detail, the height of function for the canister to open is set on the fuze when assembled by the armorer, not by the pilot, AFAIK. So what you do on the Store management system page of modern aircraft is to tell the system what is programmed on the bomb and have the correct release parameters calculated for the set height.

Same goes for the LGB laser codes. The code is set on the ground by physical dials on the guidance kit and you can't change a bombs laser code mid flight... that is a convenience for us flight simmers. :)

Edited April 15, 2020 by shagrat

[PSYKOnz]

Fusing has nothing to do with tracking. Fusing only affects when the bomb will explode or if it will explode at all. Tracking has nothing to do with it.

 

So what's actually your issue? Tracking or fusing?

 

For fusing I don't think it matters what fuse you select.

 

For tracking you need to make sure you have the correct laser code and laser is active.

 

The 24s are indeed not really implemented yet.

 

 

the trouble is tracking, we are having a real hard time with track consistency, with budylase from either f16 or f18, all-laser codes have been correct some times the bomb tracks sometimes it doesn't, some times the damn thing goes past the target then turn hard to come back and hit the target, sometimes il looks like it's trying to climb up the beam. we just cant figure out what we are doing wrong!

 

I can't find any decent guidelines anywhere, hoping the community can help

 

I'm not sure the different fusing types currently matter in the Tomcat, but for realistic procedure and if they might add these details like in the Hornet, it is good practice to do it correct.

TL/DR: Set N/T as you want the tail-fuze armed.

Now a bit more detail. First, I am no specialist/armorer, I was in the German army and had some contact with munitions for tanks and most knowledge comes from reading manuals and information published by the military as available on the internet. With that out of the way, let's have a high level look at the different fuzing types.

Mechanical fuzes - usually contact fuze, that requires to hit something to detonate the bomb

Electrical fuzes - some type of battery/electricity dependend sensor or measurement equipment that uses parameters met to release a charge to detonate the bomb. Think: Air pressure for 200ft on the air pressure sensor reached, detonates a bomb in air-burst mode.

These basic types come in Nose or Tail versions IRL, but for DCS we can currently simply assume Nose uses only Mechanical Fuzes (MFuz) and Tail, as in real life, only Electrical Fuzes (EFuz). Now LGB use a laser guidance and steering kit, that puts a Laser seeker to the Nose and a gliding fin and EFuz assembly on the Tail. This allows for a timed delay for the bomb penetrating the walls of a building and detonating inside. That's why you need an EFuz and that is connected to the Tail, as the Nose would likely damage the Timer/Fuze on impact if it where placed in the Seeker-head. Same goes for JDAM btw. So in DCS you should always use Tail or Nose/Tail fuzing when arming any guided bomb units.

The CBU (Canister Bomb Units) for Cluster Munitions use EFuz, as well, to open the canister at a specific altitude and release the bomblets/submunitions. So these require Tail or N/T fuzing.

Nice detail, the height of function for the canister to open is set on the fuze when assembled by the armorer, not by the pilot, AFAIK. So what you do on the Store management system page of modern aircraft is to tell the system what is programmed on the bomb and have the correct release parameters calculated for the set height.

Same goes for the LGB laser codes. The code is set on the ground by physical dials on the guidance kit and you can't change a bombs laser code mid flight... that is a convenience for us flight simmers. :)

 

wow, what an epic bit of information, thank you for this :)

[QuiGon]

the trouble is tracking, we are having a real hard time with track consistency, with budylase from either f16 or f18, all-laser codes have been correct some times the bomb tracks sometimes it doesn't, some times the damn thing goes past the target then turn hard to come back and hit the target, sometimes il looks like it's trying to climb up the beam. we just cant figure out what we are doing wrong!

 

I can't find any decent guidelines anywhere, hoping the community can help

I recommend to fire the laser after the bomb has been released. Even better if you wait untill ~15 seconds TTI (Time To Impact) before firing the laser.

 

Also make sure that the laser bomb code of the attacking aircraft matches the laser designator code of the lasing aircraft.

For the F-14 and the F-16 you have to set the laser bomb code on the kneeboard while on the ground with engines off, while in the F-18 you can set it on the stores page at any time.

The laser designator code can be set at any time on all three aircraft. In the F-14 and F-18 you can do that on the TGP-Display, while in the F-16 you can do that on the DED subpage for laser codes.

Edited April 15, 2020 by QuiGon

[Scrape]

To add a small piece to what Shagrat said...With LGBs like the GBU-10, 12, etc. the nose option will activate the seeker head. For all LGBs you'd selected N/T. Selecting only Tail (T) will leave the fuze active, but the seeker head won't be. Like mentioned there are never nose fuzes on LGBs. Only tail fuzes and the fins are hard wired to deploy. Fins for LGBs are never attached to a fuze solenoid or fuze option. The seeker head of the LGBs, either CCG or GCU is always wired to the nose solenoid.

 

I do not know if DCS models this, but if it does then N/T is the only correct option for LGB employment.

[shagrat]

To add a small piece to what Shagrat said...With LGBs like the GBU-10, 12, etc. the nose option will activate the seeker head. For all LGBs you'd selected N/T. Selecting only Tail (T) will leave the fuze active, but the seeker head won't be. Like mentioned there are never nose fuzes on LGBs. Only tail fuzes and the fins are hard wired to deploy. Fins for LGBs are never attached to a fuze solenoid or fuze option. The seeker head of the LGBs, either CCG or GCU is always wired to the nose solenoid.

 

I do not know if DCS models this, but if it does then N/T is the only correct option for LGB employment.

Thanks a lot, that is a piece of information I have missed, for some time now.

I doubt DCS models the fuzing options in such detail, yet. Wags said something about they plan to look at different fuze types etc. in the future. My guess is we will first see terminal guidance on JDAM/JSOW before we get detailed fuze types and operation modeled.

I am actually happy, it isn't just "arm it and it works" any more, so we need care a bit about the complexity of modern ordnance. ;)

[PSYKOnz]

so, always fuse N/T and only turn the laser on when the bomb is much closer to target, anything else?

 

what's a good/ideal release hight/speed?

[The LT]

Reliable laser range is less than 10nm, so make sure you don't exceed maximum laser distance and stay under 15nm for illuminating aircraft.

[shagrat]

When buddy Lasing don't ingress from opposing directions, as in buddy Lasing from the North and you run in from the South. I am not 100% sure laser reflection is modeled in this detail, but we had similar issues with LSS where my TGP targeted my buddies TGP, which indicates at least the two beam endpoints are modeled. IRL you have restrictions on the ingress angle to prevent targeting the JTAC instead of the enemy...

For DCS I found it works pretty good if you ingress between 5° and 90° angle between buddy and yourself. So if he is ingress and lases from 120°, you want to ingress from somewhere between 125° to 210° or 30° to 115°. IRL the optimum angle is around 45° separation IIRC (did not look it up, tried to remember).

[QuiGon]

When buddy Lasing don't ingress from opposing directions, as in buddy Lasing from the North and you run in from the South. I am not 100% sure laser reflection is modeled in this detail, but we had similar issues with LSS where my TGP targeted my buddies TGP, which indicates at least the two beam endpoints are modeled. IRL you have restrictions on the ingress angle to prevent targeting the JTAC instead of the enemy...

For DCS I found it works pretty good if you ingress between 5° and 90° angle between buddy and yourself. So if he is ingress and lases from 120°, you want to ingress from somewhere between 125° to 210° or 30° to 115°. IRL the optimum angle is around 45° separation IIRC (did not look it up, tried to remember).

I never had any issues with attacking and buddylasing from totally opposite directions. I usually do buddylasing on targets in the open, so it might be different when attacking targets in cities, where buildings might block LOS to the laser. I'm not sure how much is simulated there.

 

It is important though that the lasing aircraft stays within 10nm of the target, as the laser range in DCS is limited to ~10nm.

Edited April 16, 2020 by QuiGon

[Psydshow]

I'm not sure the different fusing types currently matter in the Tomcat, but for realistic procedure and if they might add these details like in the Hornet, it is good practice to do it correct.

TL/DR: Set N/T as you want the tail-fuze armed.

Now a bit more detail. First, I am no specialist/armorer, I was in the German army and had some contact with munitions for tanks and most knowledge comes from reading manuals and information published by the military as available on the internet. With that out of the way, let's have a high level look at the different fuzing types.

Mechanical fuzes - usually contact fuze, that requires to hit something to detonate the bomb

Electrical fuzes - some type of battery/electricity dependend sensor or measurement equipment that uses parameters met to release a charge to detonate the bomb. Think: Air pressure for 200ft on the air pressure sensor reached, detonates a bomb in air-burst mode.

These basic types come in Nose or Tail versions IRL, but for DCS we can currently simply assume Nose uses only Mechanical Fuzes (MFuz) and Tail, as in real life, only Electrical Fuzes (EFuz). Now LGB use a laser guidance and steering kit, that puts a Laser seeker to the Nose and a gliding fin and EFuz assembly on the Tail. This allows for a timed delay for the bomb penetrating the walls of a building and detonating inside. That's why you need an EFuz and that is connected to the Tail, as the Nose would likely damage the Timer/Fuze on impact if it where placed in the Seeker-head. Same goes for JDAM btw. So in DCS you should always use Tail or Nose/Tail fuzing when arming any guided bomb units.

The CBU (Canister Bomb Units) for Cluster Munitions use EFuz, as well, to open the canister at a specific altitude and release the bomblets/submunitions. So these require Tail or N/T fuzing.

Nice detail, the height of function for the canister to open is set on the fuze when assembled by the armorer, not by the pilot, AFAIK. So what you do on the Store management system page of modern aircraft is to tell the system what is programmed on the bomb and have the correct release parameters calculated for the set height.

Same goes for the LGB laser codes. The code is set on the ground by physical dials on the guidance kit and you can't change a bombs laser code mid flight... that is a convenience for us flight simmers. :)

 

Pretty close.

 

I’m an ex armourer on jets. GBU-16 has 3 arming wires on Paveway 2. Two rear wires go to tail fuze and tail fins. Tail fuze can be mech or electric, generally electric. We used the FMU-139 in the tail. Nose fuze goes to the Guidance Control Group and initiates the thermal battery and gas grain generator to provide power to the fins. If you don’t have nose, it is dumb. If you chose nose only, it goes thud, not bang. It also won’t glide so far.

 

Never used CBU, my country banned the use of them.

 

Snake and slick bombs were similar. Tail electric fuse, but we used to route that to the nose arming solenoid. Tail went to the fins for snake. Gave the pilot the option of dropping slick or retarded. If we ran with a target detecting device on the nose (for air burst) that ran off the nose as well. Tail solenoid for fusing. For mechanical fused M904, nose for the fuze.

 

SMS would take care of most of the switchology but rule of thumb, if you want a bang, N/T. However, if you want to give the EOD guys something to do...

[shagrat]

I never had any issues with attacking and buddylasing from totally opposite directions. I usually do buddylasing on targets in the open, so it might be different when attacking targets in cities, where buildings might block LOS to the laser. I'm not sure how much is simulated there.

 

It is important though that the lasing aircraft stays within 10nm of the target, as the laser range in DCS is limited to ~10nm.

As I said didn't test in detail just noticed two weeks, ago that my LSS locked on to my buddy's plane's direction.

At least real world procedure is restricting attack vectors to prevent accidentally killing the JTAC or misguiding the bomb and optimize the chance for a good and secure lock. I found it does add to the immersion to care about these details and coordinate ingress direction. Another benefit is easier reseting for a follow up attack.

The 10 NM distance for the laser sounds about right, though DCS more like cuts the beam, instead of a degradation. So inside 10 NM a lock is good, 5ft outside it won't lock. I would love to see this in DCS one day.

Buildings and IIRC vehicles block LOS and laser, it seems.

[shagrat]

Pretty close.

 

 

 

I’m an ex armourer on jets. GBU-16 has 3 arming wires on Paveway 2. Two rear wires go to tail fuze and tail fins. Tail fuze can be mech or electric, generally electric. We used the FMU-139 in the tail. Nose fuze goes to the Guidance Control Group and initiates the thermal battery and gas grain generator to provide power to the fins. If you don’t have nose, it is dumb. If you chose nose only, it goes thud, not bang. It also won’t glide so far.

 

 

 

Never used CBU, my country banned the use of them.

 

 

 

Snake and slick bombs were similar. Tail electric fuse, but we used to route that to the nose arming solenoid. Tail went to the fins for snake. Gave the pilot the option of dropping slick or retarded. If we ran with a target detecting device on the nose (for air burst) that ran off the nose as well. Tail solenoid for fusing. For mechanical fused M904, nose for the fuze.

 

 

 

SMS would take care of most of the switchology but rule of thumb, if you want a bang, N/T. However, if you want to give the EOD guys something to do...

Cool. Thanks a lot. I guess, I should put a little guide together and instigate a special interest group.

[Scrape]

Cool. Thanks a lot. I guess, I should put a little guide together and instigate a special interest group.

 

I'd be interested.

[Deano87]

the trouble is tracking, we are having a real hard time with track consistency, with budylase from either f16 or f18, all-laser codes have been correct some times the bomb tracks sometimes it doesn't, some times the damn thing goes past the target then turn hard to come back and hit the target, sometimes il looks like it's trying to climb up the beam. we just cant figure out what we are doing wrong!

 

Sounds like you're lasing from too far away. Budy lase aircraft needs to be within 8.5 miles of the target.

 

See my old video on the subject here:

 

 

As far as I know nothing has changed about laser max range since I have made this video. I believe the Tomcats own laser is good to around 12 miles. But the A-10, AV8B, F-18 and F-16 laser ends after 8.5 Miles and all laser guided weapons will seek the end of that laser, even if its floating in space several hundred foot up lol.