Question about holding pattern(stack) in CASE I

[tifafan]

G B mentioned every squadron has it own holding alttitude.

 

 

But when signal is charlie,the flight decend from this assigned alttitude (for example 3000feet) or decend to 2000 when 2000 is vacated,then commence from 2000feet only?

 

 

 

When join the stack,how can we make sure we have proper seperation from flight at same alttitude?

Edited June 1, 2020 by tifafan

[Tholozor]

I'd venture to guess you should probably already be at your holding altitude before entering the CCZ, or arriving at it shortly afterwards.

[norman99]

From what I've gathered, in real life cyclic ops, everyone plans to arrive in the marshal stack 10min before recovery ops start. Once recovery starts, and the stack begins to collapse, any late arrivals join at the top, regardless of their squadrons assigned altitude. This ensures flight descends through another flights level.

 

I assume AI/player integration in the carrier arrival flow is still WIP because there are some big flaws to the current implementation. For instance in one mission I joined the stack at 3000', as there was a flight holding at 2000', and another in the landing pattern. A subsequent flight arrived afterwards, and joined me at 3000', instead of staying above me at 4000'. Once the landing flight was clear, I received "signal is charlie" and all the AI flights continued to hold, expecting my flight to land next. This meant descending down through the flight holding at 2000' below me.

 

It seems currently as soon as you call "overhead" at about 3 miles, the player's flight is placed at the front of the queue, next inline behind anything currently in the landing pattern, regardless of where they are positioned in relation to other AI flights.

 

As I've said in a couple other threads, what we need is ATC to actually assign us an altitude on check-in. Whilst this is not completely realistic, neither is what we have now, so that shouldn’t be the argument for not making improvements to the arrival flow.

[G B]

G B mentioned every squadron has it own holding alttitude.

 

 

But when signal is charlie,the flight decend from this assigned alttitude (for example 3000feet) or decend to 2000 when 2000 is vacated,then commence from 2000feet only?

 

 

 

When join the stack,how can we make sure we have proper seperation from flight at same alttitude?

 

 

CQ: Squadrons do NOT have their own altitudes. Aircraft go where the Boss tells them to go. It is NOT zip lip. Aircraft are given a Charlie or Charlie time.

 

 

Cyclic Ops: Each squadron has an altitude assigned to them. It is Zip Lip. There is no Charlie or Charlie Time. The stack is collapsed completely visually, with the aircraft commencing when they see the launch will be complete, and aircraft above them coming down as lower altitudes are vacated.

[tifafan]

Thank you!

[Spiceman]

The stack is collapsed completely visually, with the aircraft commencing when they see the launch will be complete, and aircraft above them coming down as lower altitudes are vacated.

 

Our RL crews that we talk to say that the cut lights were used to signal to the guys at the bottom of the stack that the deck was rigged for recovery.

[G B]

Our RL crews that we talk to say that the cut lights were used to signal to the guys at the bottom of the stack that the deck was rigged for recovery.

 

Your RL crews are mistaken. That is in no way true.

 

The cut lights are only visible from the same direction that you normally can see the IFLOLS lights. Additionally, even when in the groove, the cut lights aren’t that easy to see. During cyclic ops, cut lights are used as the “Roger ball” and potentially for “power calls” when a voice call isn’t required.

 

Finally, the one and only way to know in cyclic ops when it is time to commence, is by the jets at the bottom of the stack “hawking the deck.” When they visually determine that the launch will be wrapping up soon, they will commence and play out their turn to arrive in the groove with minimal “open deck time.”

 

Edit: I see you are from the Tomcat community. Is it possible that things were once as you describe? Yes. But for at least the past 20 years, the cut lights have not been used for that. I’d also imagine that that was a technique used in some airwings and not others, as that technique is not official nor published in anything official. I imagine that the cut lights (if they were used this way) were an additional tool to supplement the primary method: visual.

Edited June 1, 2020 by G B

[dlpayer]

The F4J Phantom were the last plane to launch and the first planes to recover {due to fuel considerations, spent most of the time flying around at max conserve}. A cycle was normally 1 1/2 hours. The goal was to pretty much roll out in the groove as the last plane launched. If you were late, the Air Boss would probably want to talk with you.