SPO-15 RWR showing wrong signal strength in multiplayer

[BlackPixxel]

In multiplayer, the SPO-15 shows very wrong signal strengths.

 

An F-18 is much stronger than an F-14, a JF-17 is even stronger and even a F-16 is as strong as a F-15C.

 

This makes the SPO-15 very ineffective, as even distant JF-17 or F-18 will show with full signal strength and mask closer and more dangerous threats.

 

In singleplayer the signal strengths are very different and appear to work correctly (at least for the F-18 ).

[BlackPixxel]

Trackfiles:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4411302&postcount=2

[BlackPixxel]

Can this issue be looked at please? It is unrealistic and affecting gameplay.

 

With the reduced update rates and the general lack of updates I am afraid that I will have to wait a year until I can fly the Flanker again.

[Seaeagle]

Can this issue be looked at please? It is unrealistic and affecting gameplay.

 

With the reduced update rates and the general lack of updates I am afraid that I will have to wait a year until I can fly the Flanker again.

 

Its actually unrealistic for the Su-33 to have the SPO-15 in the first place :) .

[AeriaGloria]

Its actually unrealistic for the Su-33 to have the SPO-15 in the first place :) .

 

:megalol:

[BlackPixxel]

Its actually unrealistic for the Su-33 to have the SPO-15 in the first place :) .

 

Then they can at least fix it on Su-27, J-11, MiG-29, Su-25, Su-25T and upgrade our Su-33 to L-150 and SVP-24 :)

[BlackPixxel]

I see that the tracks I provided are broken, looks like there is another bug that prevents multiplayer tracks from being recorded properly. Nice!

Edited July 19, 2020 by BlackPixxel

[Falcon_S]

Keep pushing Pixxie! :)

[Fri13]

Its actually unrealistic for the Su-33 to have the SPO-15 in the first place :) .

 

What is it then having for a RWR instrument?

I don't know so much between Su-33 and Su-27S cockpit design differences etc.

 

Edit: As I am after years still in a search for the design decision in Su-27S to place the SPO-15 at the bottom right corner. It is so odd that you place so important instrument at so far away from the outside view, that if in combat you get a warning, you need to take your eyes far from the outside to deep below in cockpit. Like every other design places RWR panels right next to HUD or edge of the cockpit (like MiG-21), but then suddenly Su-27 and MiG-29 placed those to bottom?!

 

The MiG-23 made major difference that it didn't provide a radar scope/screen but all was on the HUD. Something that I completely prefer as it helps to maintain a better situational awareness to outside, it is bad to use a screen in Teen-series fighters to operate the radar.

 

So could the SPO-15 instrument in the bottom right be just a back-up instrument, and RWR is primarily shown other means? As considering that you do have a one display and HUD both capable to show various sensors information....

But that Su-33 being without RWR instrument would then be IMHO very very strange thing...

Edited July 19, 2020 by Fri13

[BlackPixxel]

On the cockpit pictures the space for the SPO-15 instrument is covered by a blank panel, except for one picture where it shows a different instrument (L-150?)

 

But still the Su-33 had the radomes in the leading edges and in the stinger for the L-150 antennas. Maybe the instrument was just removed when showing the cockpit to the public?

[Seaeagle]

Then they can at least fix it on Su-27, J-11, MiG-29, Su-25, Su-25T and upgrade our Su-33 to L-150 and SVP-24 :)

 

Yup - cannot argue with that :)

[Seaeagle]

What is it then having for a RWR instrument?

I don't know so much between Su-33 and Su-27S cockpit design differences etc.

 

For most of its service life it actually didn't have one. I think it was probably always meant to have the L-150, but for some reason didn't get it until very recently. It might be that the L-150 itself wasn't fully developed/certified back in the early nineties or/and that the economic situation immedeatly after the fall of the SU was such that there was no money for it/no appetite for using whatever there was on the Su-33 - I don't know the exact reason, but the more you learn about the Su-33, the more it appears to be a long term WIP project :) .

 

 

 

Edit: As I am after years still in a search for the design decision in Su-27S to place the SPO-15 at the bottom right corner. It is so odd that you place so important instrument at so far away from the outside view, that if in combat you get a warning, you need to take your eyes far from the outside to deep below in cockpit. Like every other design places RWR panels right next to HUD or edge of the cockpit (like MiG-21), but then suddenly Su-27 and MiG-29 placed those to bottom?!

 

Yeah thats a fair point, but the MiG-29 and Su-27 are not alone in that respect - the "legacy" F-18 also has its threat display in equally odd position(by the pilot's right knee).

 

The MiG-23 made major difference that it didn't provide a radar scope/screen but all was on the HUD. Something that I completely prefer as it helps to maintain a better situational awareness to outside, it is bad to use a screen in Teen-series fighters to operate the radar.

 

So could the SPO-15 instrument in the bottom right be just a back-up instrument, and RWR is primarily shown other means? As considering that you do have a one display and HUD both capable to show various sensors information....

 

No the SPO-15 of this generation was a "stand-alone" instrument and only display threat info on the panel itself. However, I believe a digital version was developed sometime in the late ninties, where threat info could be displayed on a color MFD instead - I remember having seen a photo of this on a color LCD of a MiG-29SMT.....but interestingly it was just a graphical representation of the old SPO-15 display with the exact same layout.

 

But that Su-33 being without RWR instrument would then be IMHO very very strange thing...

 

Yeah, but like I mentioned, I think it was just down to long term WIP. If you look around for photos of the Su-33 cockpit, you will find that nearly all of them have slightly different cockpit layouts and that there clearly were steps taken to move things around to make room for an RWR display :)

[Seaeagle]

On the cockpit pictures the space for the SPO-15 instrument is covered by a blank panel, except for one picture where it shows a different instrument (L-150?)

 

Actually as I mentioned in my above post, there are several different cockpit layouts - some where there is no space at all for an RWR display on the front panel, some where they have moved TLPs and switches around, but still no sign of an RWR display, some where(as you said) there is a cutout for one, but blanked by a panel and finally one where you can see an RWR display, that has the rough dimensions of the SPO-15, but probably is dedicated panel for the L-150....probably because in the photo, the cockpit still had the old IPV and therefore couldn't display L-150 info on MFD.

 

But still the Su-33 had the radomes in the leading edges and in the stinger for the L-150 antennas.

AFAIK this was only the case on some airframes, which further supports my impression of a long term WIP :) .

 

Maybe the instrument was just removed when showing the cockpit to the public?

I doubt it. Like I said, there are several Su-33 cockpit photos, where there wasn't even made room for it yet. If it was due to secrecy, then why not simply refrain from showing any cockpit photos at all......and why then show photos with it now? :) Edited July 19, 2020 by Seaeagle

[Velik]

On the cockpit pictures the space for the SPO-15 instrument is covered by a blank panel, except for one picture where it shows a different instrument (L-150?)

 

But still the Su-33 had the radomes in the leading edges and in the stinger for the L-150 antennas. Maybe the instrument was just removed when showing the cockpit to the public?

 

Original SU-33 had "Freon" RWR/ECM complex. It was closer to systems that "big guys" such as tu-144 or tu-95 have. Smth close to "Baykal" complex from tu-160.

33th has never had an spo-15. Only couple of antennas and converters were the same. But in general Freon was completely different complex.

It was due to the fact that su-33 had to faced with serious threats with a limited support of friendly systems. Threats like F-14,phoenix, powerful ship radars etc. SPO-15 was not enough for it.

But Freon was a really serious and complicated system. TOO complicated.

It had its own on-board computer. Information from sensors was shown on HDD an "Ecran" panel. Kinda bad decision from the start.

Long story short it never worked as planned. Some people said it has never worked at all.

And 90s killed all hopes to get it right.

Now SU-33 has L-150 "Pastel" as a main system. But it's classified, so forget to see it in DCS and enjoy your "self-folding" wings.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Velik

[Fri13]

Information from sensors was shown on HDD an "Ecran" panel.

 

Didn't understand that, was it meant to have information on the HDD display (as naviation, HUD repeater etc) AND on Ecran panel like, or just only on Ecran panel like and not on HDD at all?

[BlackPixxel]

Original SU-33 had "Freon" RWR/ECM complex. It was closer to systems that "big guys" such as tu-144 or tu-95 have. Smth close to "Baykal" complex from tu-160.

33th has never had an spo-15. Only couple of antennas and converters were the same. But in general Freon was completely different complex.

It was due to the fact that su-33 had to faced with serious threats with a limited support of friendly systems. Threats like F-14,phoenix, powerful ship radars etc. SPO-15 was not enough for it.

But Freon was a really serious and complicated system. TOO complicated.

It had its own on-board computer. Information from sensors was shown on HDD an "Ecran" panel. Kinda bad decision from the start.

Long story short it never worked as planned. Some people said it has never worked at all.

And 90s killed all hopes to get it right.

Now SU-33 has L-150 "Pastel" as a main system. But it's classified, so forget to see it in DCS and enjoy your "self-folding" wings.

 

Nice information!

 

So this instrument here could actually be part of that Freon RWR and not of the L-150?

 

[AeriaGloria]

Nice information!

 

So this instrument here could actually be part of that Freon RWR and not of the L-150?

 

 

L-150

[Velik]

Nice information!

 

So this instrument here could actually be part of that Freon RWR and not of the L-150?

 

...

 

This is L-150 awarness screen. Early version. Similar to TEWS. Mounted on SU-33 since ~2006

Freon had no indicator. So if something broken it was difficult to find it out and check because the only way you can know about failure is "Ekran".

Unfortunatelly, info I already posted is mostly all info possible to get in russian internet.

[Fri13]

This is L-150 awarness screen. Early version. Similar to TEWS. Mounted on SU-33 since ~2006

Freon had no indicator. So if something broken it was difficult to find it out and check because the only way you can know about failure is "Ekran".

Unfortunatelly, info I already posted is mostly all info possible to get in russian internet.

 

If FREON didn't have a interface, how did the pilot interpret the warnings? Some interface it must have. You don't add RWR antennas, computer and other systems but then leave the user interface out. As it is nothing more than a dead weight in that moment..

 

Well, no more information means there is again one mystery more that what designers were thinking to it be usable......

 

At least on Su-27M it already was moved from SPO-15 to MFCD screens. So SPO-15 lifetime in Su-27 was short and quick.

[Velik]

If FREON didn't have a interface, how did the pilot interpret the warnings? Some interface it must have. You don't add RWR antennas, computer and other systems but then leave the user interface out. As it is nothing more than a dead weight in that moment..

 

Well, no more information means there is again one mystery more that what designers were thinking to it be usable......

 

At least on Su-27M it already was moved from SPO-15 to MFCD screens. So SPO-15 lifetime in Su-27 was short and quick.

Freon has no separate panel, but the only guess we have that main data was shown on HDD. Failures were shown on "Ecran".

[pepin1234]

I see that the tracks I provided are broken, looks like there is another bug that prevents multiplayer tracks from being recorded properly. Nice!

 

This: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=280937

[Fri13]

Freon has no separate panel, but the only guess we have that main data was shown on HDD. Failures were shown on "Ecran".

 

Okay.

 

So just by using previously known methods, the RWR data would have been put to HDD with the waypoints and targeting data, and possibly even on the HUD too where radar data is visualized.

 

Would be interesting to know how much does their datalinks transmit data. Like in the Su-27 datalink system the targets data is transmitted between not just flight but as well from gci and awacs, so all SAM systems will inform Su-27 flight what is happening around and who is targeting who.

 

Like would their RWR system be used as one sensor to pin point enemies estimated positions? As their radars are used to find even jamming targets by triangulation, why combat spread is great as you get very good range information that way, but if RWR is used as well as just one sensor among others it would help build more complex picture too.