Slips in the Tomcat...

[McGarnagle]

Hello, relatively new user to DCS here (been using it about a year and it is my current obsession). I have a question regarding forward/side slips in the Tomcat. I have watched quite a few tutorials on how this maneuver is performed and understand the concept and fundamentals on what is happening well. However, whenever I try to implement the technique in the Tomcat it doesn't seem to respond the way I would assume it would. Even with full rudder in either direction and compensating with opposing bank and pitch it just doesn't seem to respond to the inputs. When applying full rudder in either direction the plane simply wants to roll and no amount of opposing bank seems to stabilize the plane. Granted this could be ENTIRELY user error (which is 99.999% likely), but I'm just curious what experience others have or what tips they might be able to give. Are others able to slip the aircraft successfully? Thank you very much for any help or advice you can give!

[KlarSnow]

Fighter jets, especially swept wing ones are generally not slipped IRL. Cross controlling the rudder/aileron except in some very specific situations is generally not something you ever need or want to do.

 

For reference a slip is generally an undesirable state of flight in any aircraft and normal flying because it creates a lot of drag. About the only time you use a slip is when you need to lose a lot of altitude at a faster controlled descent rate than your aircraft can normally provide. This is a thing in light General aviation aircraft that aren't designed to fly at 200 plus knots, don't have hydraulically boosted controls, or other speed controlling devices (airbrakes etc). You generally slip if you are trying to land and find yourself in some situation where you cannot get the aircraft to descend fast enough, so you shove in a boot of rudder and opposite aileron to increase your rate of descent while holding the nose level, once at an appropriate altitude/glide path, you undo those control inputs and fly normally.

 

All of that being said If you desire to do a slip, in something like the tomcat or hornet or a fighter jet, you don't have that much rudder authority relative to your direction of flight as in a small aircraft like a Cessna, especially with the aircraft flying faster than approach speeds.

 

This combined with swept wings means that any rudder input is going to not move the nose all that much relative to the flight path of the aircraft without also inducing a rather rapid roll. You will probly never get more than 3-5 degrees of difference in your flight path by holding the wings level with aileron while you are holding in a boot full of rudder.

 

In a cessna, you can easily get 10-30 degrees of heading change by putting in full rudder, and be flying essentially sideways rather significantly. You will not get that amount of authority in a supersonic fighter jet.

 

So all of that to say yeah, all of that seems to be as intended, you aren't really supposed to slip fighter aircraft or cross control flight controls like you are talking about (countering roll reversal in the tomcat aside). In reference to your other post about the hornet, it has a FBW flight control system that is doing its best not to let you slip the aircraft, because that's again not something it really is supposed to do.

 

If you are trying to practice slipping as a flight technique, I'd recommend the TF-51 or one of the WW2 warbirds, or the Yak-52. These aircraft have straight wings, and conventional control systems and flight dynamics. They behave much much closer to something like a Cessna or a piper Cherokee than a jet powered hydraulically boosted supersonic fighter jet will.

[Swordsman422]

I would avoid slips in the F-14 as a general rule. The F-14B with its stronger GE-F110 engines can handle the resulting disturbed air down the intakes, but when you start flying the F-14A, its engines can't. If I remember right, slipping at slow speeds was a big no-no in the F-14. Using it to correct poor lineup on a carrier approach was fatal on more than one occasion.

[McGarnagle]

Fighter jets, especially swept wing ones are generally not slipped IRL. Cross controlling the rudder/aileron except in some very specific situations is generally not something you ever need or want to do.

 

For reference a slip is generally an undesirable state of flight in any aircraft and normal flying because it creates a lot of drag. About the only time you use a slip is when you need to lose a lot of altitude at a faster controlled descent rate than your aircraft can normally provide. This is a thing in light General aviation aircraft that aren't designed to fly at 200 plus knots, don't have hydraulically boosted controls, or other speed controlling devices (airbrakes etc). You generally slip if you are trying to land and find yourself in some situation where you cannot get the aircraft to descend fast enough, so you shove in a boot of rudder and opposite aileron to increase your rate of descent while holding the nose level, once at an appropriate altitude/glide path, you undo those control inputs and fly normally.

 

All of that being said If you desire to do a slip, in something like the tomcat or hornet or a fighter jet, you don't have that much rudder authority relative to your direction of flight as in a small aircraft like a Cessna, especially with the aircraft flying faster than approach speeds.

 

This combined with swept wings means that any rudder input is going to not move the nose all that much relative to the flight path of the aircraft without also inducing a rather rapid roll. You will probly never get more than 3-5 degrees of difference in your flight path by holding the wings level with aileron while you are holding in a boot full of rudder.

 

In a cessna, you can easily get 10-30 degrees of heading change by putting in full rudder, and be flying essentially sideways rather significantly. You will not get that amount of authority in a supersonic fighter jet.

 

So all of that to say yeah, all of that seems to be as intended, you aren't really supposed to slip fighter aircraft or cross control flight controls like you are talking about (countering roll reversal in the tomcat aside). In reference to your other post about the hornet, it has a FBW flight control system that is doing its best not to let you slip the aircraft, because that's again not something it really is supposed to do.

 

If you are trying to practice slipping as a flight technique, I'd recommend the TF-51 or one of the WW2 warbirds, or the Yak-52. These aircraft have straight wings, and conventional control systems and flight dynamics. They behave much much closer to something like a Cessna or a piper Cherokee than a jet powered hydraulically boosted supersonic fighter jet will.

Thank you SO much for the detailed explanation! That was sort of the hunch that I was assuming in regards to the maneuver and the types of aircraft that it is typically performed in. However right now I'm just in a mode of learning and absorbing as much information as I can, and this flight concept recently came up. But that was pretty much what my assumption was and thank you so much for the clarification and explanation. Very much appreciate the help!

[McGarnagle]

I would avoid slips in the F-14 as a general rule. The F-14B with its stronger GE-F110 engines can handle the resulting disturbed air down the intakes, but when you start flying the F-14A, its engines can't. If I remember right, slipping at slow speeds was a big no-no in the F-14. Using it to correct poor lineup on a carrier approach was fatal on more than one occasion.

Yes I believe it was that very thing that caused frequent compressor stalls in the TF90. Thanks for the clarification!

[jmarso]

Bad idea in just about any jet, military or civilian.

[eatthis]

i rarely use it but only if im overshooting a formation join, only ever done it a hand full of times