Super Libra - some newbie questions

[Tiger72]

Hi Folks

 

Long time lurker, first-time poster. I'm getting back into simming after a long break. I've been a long term Thrustmaster user for years and my last set up was the cougar that I parted ways with a couple of years back.

 

I decided to see what else is out there and discovered Winwing. Loved the look of the stick and thought that the Warthog (which was my logical choice) was getting long in the tusk and prob better out there.

 

Long story short - dropped the hammer on a Libra and it's promptly arrived here in Aussie land.

 

I don't have the ability to run a dedicated setup and I need to tear down my sim set up to do work after each use. Hence I was deterred by the cumbersome looking mounts offered by Winwing for Libra and Taurus setups and ordered the base plate for desktop use. On the desk it's a little tall I have to admit.

 

First impressions was the spring was way to tight. I've swapped that out to a #4 and it seems ok perhaps still a little stiff for desktop use as the mount wants to move.

 

My two issues are:

 

1) Gun trigger. While the first indent requires 'ok' pressure to hit. The second indent is clunky / notchy and certainly not what I call smooth to operate. It feels like it needs too much pressure to use. Is that just me or perhaps a defect? Should I just focus on using the first stage?

 

2) Cams. My stick only came with the S cams, which is fine. However, despite me adjusting (following the you tube video and paper instructions) I cant seem to get a happy place for centre stick movement. There seems to be a fair amount of 'slop' in the centre I cant dial out. Most noticeable when rolling left or right and pitching through centre. Not smooth at all for me.

 

To be honest I'm a little disappointed with the purchase for the money. But I'm willing to tune it to get right. I dont have a solution for throttle (and I know how awesome WW is for that) as my desk is a corner desk. I have ordered a Monstertec desk mount for the stick which hopefully will solve some of the height issue on the desk and fix it in place.

 

Part of me is thinking maybe the warthog was the better option for my desk set up. Love to hear any suggestions or input.

 

Thanks

Tiger

[MustangSally]

I have no idea how stable the table mount as I have mine mounted using the Winwing mounts.....rock solid.

 

 

As far as centre feel, it took me a good hour to get it adjusted just the way I like it. I removed the case and bolted it back to the mounts and made tiny cam/dampner adjustments till it felt just right.

 

 

The second stage gun trigger is firm and took me a while to get used to it.

[Lynchsl62]

I have no idea how stable the table mount as I have mine mounted using the Winwing mounts.....rock solid.

 

 

As far as centre feel, it took me a good hour to get it adjusted just the way I like it. I removed the case and bolted it back to the mounts and made tiny cam/dampner adjustments till it felt just right.

 

 

The second stage gun trigger is firm and took me a while to get used to it.

I have the Super Libra as well and like the OP find that there is a significant center play in the pitch direction and not so much center play on the roll direction. Tried adjusting the cams with the very poor manual from Winwing with no success. Can you let me know how you adjusted the cams and the settings to reduce the play. I installed the extension to use with MonsterTech mount and put in the recommended springs - nearly losing a finger in the process they are heavy duty! So would prefer not to have to remove the springs ever again - I even bought a spring puller tool, but the pull was too much and the end deformed. So far because of the play the Super Libra is gathering dust......

[Vullcan]

Yes there is more play in the pitch direction than the roll direction. This must be due to the design of the gimbal and the way each axis is attached / supported to the frame.

 

However, you can greatly reduce the play with extensive tweaking as MustangSally is referring to. Removing the case and making micro adjustments until it feels good. IMO this should not be required on a product of this caliber. Why is it so hard to default set it to a hard center stop without slop in the center? I could rant all day about this design, but it is what it is so here is how I adjust it:

 

Watch the video with a grain of salt, it has good information and is mandatory IMO, the manual cant come close... but it doesn't tell the whole story and your cams might not even look like theirs do in the video:

 

1. Take the case off, install your desired cams & springs then mount the joystick with the case off (so its stable).
   
2. Plug in the USB connector and connect it to the computer so you can monitor the axis' readout with SimAppPro. Note, for obvious reasons at this point you have to be extremely careful going forward to not cause a short on the circuitry.
   
3. Loosen both X & Y dampers fully.
   
4. Loosen all 4 adjustment (CSD / Center Stop Device) screws
   
5. Pick an axis (I start with X) and turn one screw in until the cam barely contacts the axis bearing. You may see the stick move when it makes contact, if so back it off a hair. You want it to barely kiss it. Then, do the same thing with the other screw.
   
6. Now feel it, is there still too much play? If so alternate tightening each screw by micro adjusting them one after the other until the play is gone. You really have to turn them only fractions of an millimetre it seems. Any large adjustment and you've screwed the pooch.
   *Note Don't let the shaft / stick get off center during this process. Keep that axis bearing in the center of the cams at all times because were not trying to get an asymmetrical setup here.
   
7. Repeat for the other axis.
   
8. OK now the hard part, keep it feeling good (no play) with the return to center in SimAppPro showing as close to the value 32767 (center of the axis) as you can get. Do this on both axis.
    
   To do this you will need to turn one screw and note the value change on your screen. Head towards the direction of 32767. But now you have introduced some play into the system right? Turn the other screw the same amount to nullify it. You probably cant get it to return exactly to 32767 (I couldn't) so aim for it to return as close to there as possible (what is ideal? I aimed for + or - 300).
   

 

Now step 8 is the most tedious and is important because it seems there is no way during calibration to define what is the "center" of the axis.

 

So say you got it feeling good, looking good visually but your return to center ends up being a bit off from 32767, maybe 30,000 on the nose. Well with this number your aircraft will always have input in a direction unless you set a deadzone (which I assume were trying to avoid on a high caliber joystick).

 

But why is this? Why is there no "leave the joystick centered and press a button" during the calibration wizard? This has to be an oversight, right?

 

I am very interested to hear your feedback or an alternative method to get this to work. Did I miss the centering calbiration feature in the software entirely? Please share thoughts and methods to try to make this process easier.

 

Or maybe most people dont care about play in the center of the stick and want a soft center with a bit of play which is why they designed it this way? I purchased the stick after watching this video where it seems to have a hard defined center.

 

One thing I notice is my cams dont look like that, those cams in the video look like they would provide a harder defined center with less slop, and be easier to adjust since it would be more obvious when the cam is contacting the bearing. My cams are pretty much touching eachother.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Vullcan

[Tiger72]

Thanks for the replies guys. And thanks Vullcan for your suggestion / instructions. I will give this a go for sure.

[Waxer]

Winwing mounts.....rock solid.

 

Here is another opinion:

Edited September 10, 2020 by Milou

[MustangSally]

Here is another opinion:

 

 

 

The mounts that come with the the Winwing setup may not look as nice as the Monstertech units but at least they don't cost half a house mortgage!!!

Edited September 10, 2020 by MustangSally

[Waxer]

What, are we going to go tit for tat on mounts are we??

 

Nah. Just wanted to trigger Winwing's PR department in Brisbane. Mission accomplished. Return to base for tea and biscuits. Hurrah.

[MustangSally]

Nah. Just wanted to trigger Winwing's PR department in Brisbane. Mission accomplished. Return to base for tea and biscuits. Hurrah.

 

 

:megalol::megalol:

 

 

Oh, tea and biscuits is a pommy thing!