A request for more versitile labels

[gherring]

Currently, if labels are used, a whole lot of info is given about an object once the label appears. I would like some of the text detail to change with range. For example, in a conflict between Russia and Ukraine, there is a certain range where a pilot can see there's another plane flying, a closer range at which he can identify the type of plane, and an even closer range where he can see the insignia on the plane. To an extent, this can be done realisticly with labels off, but there will always be differences between real world visual performance and manipulating views on a computer monitor. I feel it would be an improvement if the info displayed by a label if labels are used, corrosponded better with real visual performance. I think LOMAC should support more commands in its Config\View\labels.lua file.

 

First, there should be a third color supported for aircraft that really are too far away for their insignia to be identified. I propose:

 

ColorUnknownSide = { 0, 0, 0 }

 

Second, there should be a bit of a difference between when a label appears for a large aircraft as opposed to a small aircraft., and I propose two more commands:

 

LabelMaxDistanceAirLarge (distance large aircraft are labeled)

LabelMaxDistanceAirSmall (distance small aiircraft are labeled)

 

As the distance closes, more info can be determined visually, so I propose two more commands:

 

LabelMaxDistanceAirType (distance A/C type is displayed)

LabelMaxDistanceAirSide (distance lable color changes from unknown to enemies or allies)

 

The default labels.lua might read as follows:

 

...

LabelMinDistanceAir = 100

LabelMaxDistanceAirLarge = 30000

LabelMaxDistanceAirSmall = 25000

LabelMaxDistanceAirType = 20000

LabelMaxDistanceAirSide = 10000

...

...

labelFormat = "%*%n%N%n%D%n%P"

...

...

ColorAliesSide = {200, 0, 0}

ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 200}

ColorUnknownSide = { 0, 0, 0 }

 

In this example, as the player flies towards an Il-76 escorted by a Su-27, the following occurs:

 

At a range to the Il-76 of 30000m, it gets the following label:

 

*

 

30km

Pilot1

 

At 25000m to the two planes, the Su-27 is labeled:

 

*

 

25km

pilot1

 

*

 

25km

pilot1

 

At 20000m, the labels add the aircraft:

 

*

Il-76

20km

pilot1

 

*

Su-27

20km

pilot1

 

Finally, at 10000m the colors change:

*

Il-76

10km

pilot1

 

*

Su-27

10km

pilot1

 

The labels disappear when the aircraft pass within 100m.

 

A similiar modification could be added to the ground, naval, and missile labels.

[Pvt_Mandella]

I think this is a very nice little idea.

[Dmut]

In other words we should be able to setup various visible distances for various label's attributes.

 

To make labels universal, ED could implement following scheme:

1) Labels already has an attributes, like

-- %N - name of object

-- %D - distance to object

-- %P - pilot name

2) ED should add "color" (side) attribute (now colors are fixed), and neutral (non-identified) color.

3) ED should add a visible distances for every attribute, similar to existing distances:

LabelMinDistanceAir = 100.0

LabelMaxDistanceAir = 50000.0

LabelMinDistanceGround = 100.0

LabelMaxDistanceGround = 20000.0

LabelMinDistanceNavy = 100.0

LabelMaxDistanceNavy = 50000.0

LabelMinDistanceMissile = 100.0

LabelMaxDistanceMissile = 20000.0

like:

 

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Pilot_name = 50000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Real_distance = 50000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Name_of_object = 15000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Color = 5000

 

Then everyone will be able to setup various settings for labels. For example in real life it's quite difficult to identify a exact distance to object, and nearly impossible - pilot's name :)

So I would prefere folowing settings for myself:

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Pilot_name = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Real_distance = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Name_of_object = 3000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Color = 1000

 

ps: this scheme is clearly extendable. e.g. in future we can get new attributes, like "identified weapons" of object on close distances, and "damage report" of object on very close distances, etc.

[gherring]

2) ED should add "color" (side) attribute (now colors are fixed), and neutral (non-identified) color.

 

Colors are currently defined for two sides in the labels.lua file at the very bottom, and can, if so desired, be changed (most likely to make them identical; this would keep what for many is the label's main purpose: an aid to spotting distant aircraft, while still keeping visual identification absolutely realistic). Also, neutral is not the same as unknown. Should ED add neutral units to LOMAC, I would support a fourth color that is displayed by the same parameters as allied or enemy.

 

So I would prefere folowing settings for myself:

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Pilot_name = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Real_distance = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Name_of_object = 3000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Color = 1000

 

This is currently better done via the LabelFormat command. Just omit the tags that display those lines. BTW, my line reads: LabelFormat = "%*", so all I get for any label is an asterisk, no range, no pilot name, no distance, no A/C type.

[Dmut]

2) ED should add "color" (side) attribute (now colors are fixed), and neutral (non-identified) color.

 

Colors are currently defined for two sides in the labels.lua file at the very bottom, and can, if so desired, be changed (most likely to make them identical; this would keep what for many is the label's main purpose: an aid to spotting distant aircraft, while still keeping visual identification absolutely realistic). Also, neutral is not the same as unknown. Should ED add neutral units to LOMAC, I would support a fourth color that is displayed by the same parameters as allied or enemy.

agreed, 4 colours are necessary

 

So I would prefere folowing settings for myself:

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Pilot_name = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Real_distance = 0

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Name_of_object = 3000

LabelMaxDistanceAir_Color = 1000

 

This is currently better done via the LabelFormat command. Just omit the tags that display those lines. BTW, my line reads: LabelFormat = "%*", so all I get for any label is an asterisk, no range, no pilot name, no distance, no A/C type.

At this moment we can not setup various LabelFormat for varios distances. We need a matrix with attribute-to-distance relation. What do you think?

[Alfa]

Labels?......what labels? :lol:

[Starlight]

I simply don't understand why people here strive for getting the best realism possible on this sim, and then they say they want labels, which is the least realistic feature ever seen in a sim.

Use your sensors to detect the enemy, and most of all, use your "Mark One" eyeball!

[gherring]

At this moment we can not setup various LabelFormat for varios distances. We need a matrix with attribute-to-distance relation. What do you think?

 

That is what I'm noting. However, the effect of making the view distance zero is to effectively eliminate the info. That is better done via LabelFormat. Why have the command in LabelFormat and a line that prevents that data from displaying when you can simply delete the command in LabelFormat and then delete what will probably be four (and possibly eight) distance attribute lines that refer to the unused attribute.

 

If you feel you'd do a good job estimating distance at a range of 3km or less, but you don't feel that carries over to LOMAC's graphics, certainly there should be support for the command:

 

LabelMaxDistanceAirDistance = 3000

 

But if you don't want distance displayed at all, it is better to edit LabelFormat and remove the "%D". You can do this now and this will still be the better way if this proposed addition is implemented.

[ALDEGA]

Labels?......what labels? :lol:

You know, the ones they have in Ace Combat :lol:

[gherring]

I simply don't understand why people here strive for getting the best realism possible on this sim, and then they say they want labels, which is the least realistic feature ever seen in a sim.

Use your sensors to detect the enemy, and most of all, use your "Mark One" eyeball!

 

That's why I have the HP 345587612 Holodeck as my #1 Christmas wish. After all, it just ain't realistic if "the World" is solely on this big monitor square in front of you; the world is all around you and it is far more realistic to use that neck attatchment for that Mk1 Eyeball than keys or a hat or, since I want full realism in my use of neck, even TrackIR.

 

The bottom line is as long as we are limited to monitors, viewing will always be different, and if one limits monitor views to "realistic capabilities", then viewing in sims will be more difficult than real life.

 

Nobody is telling you to use labels; it's great that you can enjoy LOMAC without them. I can understand how this can be an issue in multiplayer, after all, you want your oppent's view capabilities to be the same as yours, but given all the differences in monitors, computers, and graphics cards, that won't happen if one has a new 21" monitor and the other an old 17" one. As for me, I just don't think the most distant planes stand out enough in LOMAC, so I use labels, with LabelFormat"%*". I just get an asterisk, and since I also put identical values for ColorAliesSide and ColorEnemiesSide, that asterisk doesn't even tell me friend or foe. The thing is, yes, once I find an object, I can zoom in and get more detail, and when the zoom and range are right I'll see the detail I need. But zooming the view in and out is really no more realistic than labels; it is just a compromise to get that real world view with all its size and detail onto that monitor screen in front of me. Why not have the labels perform more realisticly and save me the time and effort of manipulating zoom so I can use it to more realisticly operate avionics, flight controls, communications and weapons?

[Starlight]

I'm just saying that labels take people many steps back if they're trying to achieve realism.

Even the most realistic military sim won't get you involved as in real world, simply because when you're "flying" with it you're not risking your life.

And, when talkin' about PC simulations you are probably sitting on a chair not experiencing roll/pitch/yaw and G-forces on your body. Your view is limited, restricted and sometimes not consistent with the simulated world (think of "object pop-up" issues). So I'm not talking about the perfect simulation, I'm just saying that we're worrying about more realistic flight models, 3D aircraft with more polygons, weapons and other things with real parameters.... I don't think we should worry about labels. Sure I'm free to deactivate them, but that was just me expressing my humble opinion.

[Chizh]

The new labels format from 1.1

-- Label parameters
-- Copyright (C) 2004, Eagle Dynamics.

AirOn = true
GroundOn = true
NavyOn = true
WeaponOn = true

-- Label max distance depends on graphics visibility range option value
-- For low – 40000.0 m
-- For medium – 50000.0 m
-- For high – 80000.0 m

---------------------------------
-- Label text format symbols
-- %N - name of object
-- %D - distance to object
-- %P - pilot name
-- %n - new line 
-- %% - symbol '%'
-- %x, where x is not NDPn% - symbol 'x'
------------------------------------------
-- Example
-- labelFormat[5000] = "Name: %N%nDistance: %D%n Pilot: %P"
-- up to 5km label is:
--       Name: Su-33
--       Distance: 30km
--       Pilot: Pilot1

AirFormat = {}
AirFormat[100] = ""
AirFormat[10000] = "%N%n%D%n%P"
AirFormat[20000] = "%N%n%D"
AirFormat[30000] = "%D"
AirFormat[50000] = "'"

GroundFormat = {}
GroundFormat[100] = ""
GroundFormat[10000] = "%N%n%D"
GroundFormat[20000] = "%D"

NavyFormat = {}
NavyFormat[100] = ""
NavyFormat[20000] = "%N%n%D"
NavyFormat[50000] = "%D"

WeaponFormat = {}
WeaponFormat[50] = ""
WeaponFormat[2000] = "%N%n%D"
WeaponFormat[5000] = "%D"
WeaponFormat[10000] = "'"

-- Colors in {red, green, blue} format, volume from 0 up to 255

ColorAliesSide = {200, 0, 0}
ColorEnemiesSide = {0, 0, 200}

 

For example:

The stages of aircraft’s appearance.

1. At 50 km - ' (dot)

2. At 30 km - Range

3. At 20 km - Type and Range

4. At 10 km - Type and Range and Callsign

[GGTharos]

Very nice :)

[gherring]

That'll work! Thanks. :prayer:

 

But I still think there should be an unknown color, and editable range at which labels change color from unknown to red or blue.

[VapoR]

But I still think there should be an unknown color, and editable range at which labels change color from unknown to red or blue.

 

Jeez!! Picky, picky . . .

 

Thanks Chizh, this looks very nice!