[CORRECT AS IS]AI ROE "Return fire" is not respected against human controlled units

[Aarnoman]

DCS Version: DCS 2.5.6.57264

 

Brief description of bug: AI ROE "return fire" is not respected against human players (set as either 'client' or 'player' in missione editor).

 

Expected behaviour: AI should respect ROE setting, and not engage human player until it has been engaged.

 

To reproduce: See attached mission file. On the left is the setup with a blue client unit (red jet will not obeye ROE "return fire"). On the right the blue unit is set as AI. Note how the red unit respects ROE "return fire" and does not engage the blue AI unit. This same behaviour would be expected against human controlled units.

 

Extra notes: The "return fire" ROE setting works as intended against other AI units. This ROE setting is only disobeyed against human entities (set as 'player' or 'client' in mission editor).

ROE_ReturnFireBug.miz

[BIGNEWY]

Hi,

 

I have reported to ask the team for clarification on this,

 

thank you

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, the team have got back to me, this is not a bug.

 

Armed human aircraft of enemy coalition closer then 2 km to ai are counted as a threat and attacked. If you place human out of 2km radius no threat until human fires its missiles. 2 km is a radius when ai are able to react on sudden guns attack. When ai checks other ai - it knows that other ai will not attack him - that's why no defensive reactions.

 

hope that helps

[Aarnoman]

Hi BN, thank you for checking in with the team.

 

Although the team is of the opinion it is "correct as is", I disagree. The behaviour for "return fire" should be the same against both AI and human entities, as it creates needless confusion (this bug report was created as three people independently came to the conclusion the behaviour was bugged as a result of missions breaking when AI aircraft were replaced by human clients).

 

I propose that the ROE "return fire" for human players is changed to be identical to the behaviour against AI players.

The current ROE "return fire" behaviour against human players should be added as a new ROE behaviour, perhaps "cautious - engage within 2km".

 

This would avoid any further confusion in the future, particularly as this is very poorly documented from within the mission editor, and actively contradicts the indicated behaviour of "return fire" as it engages human players offensively.

 

 

[rurounijones]

I agree with Aarnoman here. The AI should treat humans and AI alike for the "Return Fire" ROE. The reasoning given for this behaviour "When ai checks other ai - it knows that other ai will not attack him" doesn't really make sense to me since one of the main points of "Return Fire" ROE is the tension it generates in players not knowing what is going to happen. This also makes certain realistic scenarios types (e.g. Intercept of an enemy bomber penetrating airspace to escort it away) impossible.

[Aarnoman]

Also, the mission editor manual would also imply the behaviour stays consistent as expected:

And agreed, makes escort missions very tedious to set up as many triggers are needed for behaviour, which quickly gets convuluted.

The current ROE behaviour has a purpose, but it should be a seperate selectable ROE "cautious - engage within 2km".

[BIGNEWY]

I will feedback you comments to the team, I can make no promises about a change however.

 

thank you

[rurounijones]

@BIGNEWYDid you pass the comments on? What was the response? (I believe the "corrct as is" tag was added before your last comment)

Edited March 24, 2021 by rurounijones
Clarification