[REPORTED] Possible flight model issue

[HWasp]

Hi!

 

I have found the following while testing the MiG-19P turn performance:

 

AoA 9     = 5,8G   at 424 kts
AoA 9,5 = 6,0G   at 424 kts
AoA 10  =  5,9G   at 425 kts
AoA 11   =  5,7G   at 426 kts

 

As you can see, G value is at the maximum at 9.5 degrees AoA, after that it decreases at constant speed. See attached screenshots.

 

After this I calculated CL (coefficient of lift) roughly and plotted a graph, which has a strange dip starting at 9.5 degrees AoA. See graph attached.

 

Please investigate!

[HWasp]

So, just for clarification: the problem I see is the dip in the CL-Alpha curve at 9.5 AoA. These graphs are usually quite straight up to stall AoA, and 9.5 degrees is pretty far from stall AoA on the MiG-19 (As you can see on the graph, and in the sim as well, it starts around 23 degrees)

 

So this is what a text book example of the graph looks like:

 

 

 

Also here is what I would expect it to look like in case of our MiG-19 (the red line instead of the actual measurement)

Edited December 4, 2020 by HWasp

[HWasp]

I can't think of any aerodynamic explanation, why the MiG-19 would have such a loss of lift at such a low AoA, also this issue decreases the planes turn performance and handling in a fight seriously.

Again, please investigate this!

[TLTeo]

I vaguely remember RB mentioning that sustained turn rates in the Mig-19 need to be looked at and should be improved. Maybe this is what they were referring to (or is related to it)? @RAZBAM_ELMO

Edited December 4, 2020 by TLTeo

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Team is back from the holidays and in full swing. Our FM Dev will be looking into this issue.

[Schmidtfire]

Any news on this? The strange AoA behaviour has been bumped several times on Hoggit and other places. 

[Atritas]

It's just dissapointing at this point. Being an old low-tech aircraft, the FM is the most important aspect of it. Their Discord says that they are focusing on the MiG-23 now and that the MiG-19 "is not getting deserved attention right now."

It shouldn't be that way.

[myHelljumper]

1 hour ago, Atritas said:

It's just dissapointing at this point. Being an old low-tech aircraft, the FM is the most important aspect of it. Their Discord says that they are focusing on the MiG-23 now and that the MiG-19 "is not getting deserved attention right now."

It shouldn't be that way.

 

Way to cherry pick a post.....

 

 

All I said is that we know that the updates are not coming as fast as you guys would like and we can see that, but other commitments make it so we are not progressing as fast as we would like.

 

I also said I would ask the dev if there was anything planned for the 14th update, I did ask the question but I only got the following answer from the dev working on the FM "Work has been done but it's not ready yet" and I posted it on discord just below that message.

 

 

I'm still waiting on answers from the other devs as we are not in the same timezone.

 

Just so you guys are aware, I want to be honest with all of you with the status of the modules but the honesty has to go both ways.

If you want no communication from us that's exactly how you do it.

 

Do we understand each other @Atritas ?

Edited April 12, 2021 by myHelljumper

[Atritas]

Thank you for telling the truth. I still think that the MiG-19 fm should be fixed before moving on to other MiGs. This is me being honest. 

[myHelljumper]

Yes, that's ok, that's your opinion.

 

But you don't get to cherry pick one of my sentence without the context when the context changes everything.

[Atritas]

What does the context change exactly? I don't get how I cherry-picked anything.

[Schmidtfire]

Last I heard, the MiG-23 development was put on hold so Razbam could focus on completing the Mirage and Harrier.
It feels like the communication is a bit fragmented between ED forums, Discord and FB.
   

 

[myHelljumper]

It might be, I'm not aboard the ship for too much time, I'm reporting you the thing that I know, I don't have the complete picture. Also, the devs working on the Mig-19/Mig-23 are not the same people working on the Mirage/Harrier.

 

The most important thing is this : 

- Work is ongoing on the FM and progress on this thread issue has already been done.

- Other fixes are being worked on as we speak.

 

@Atritas Your post painted Razbam as abandoning the Mig-19 because the Mig-23 was more important but what I said is totally different.

 

If the context here does not change anything to you, I don't know what to say.

Edited April 12, 2021 by myHelljumper

[Atritas]

I don't know how I stated that Razbam are abandoning the MiG-19, because I didn't.
But let me rephrase: I wished the MiG-23 wouldn't slow down the development of the MiG-19.
Is all.

[Schmidtfire]

14 minutes ago, myHelljumper said:

Also, the devs working on the Mig-19/Mig-23 are not the same people working on the Mirage/Harrier.

In that case I think you should revise the MiG-19P manual. Page 2 Introduction & Credits xD

Anyways... good to hear that the FM fixes is in progress, that's really what we need to hear. Looking forward to a future update  

Edited April 12, 2021 by Schmidtfire

[myHelljumper]

6 minutes ago, Schmidtfire said:

In that case I think you should revise the MiG-19P manual. Page 2 Introduction & Credits xD

 

 

Yeah you got me there , I should've been more precise : There is some overlap and people from Harrier/Mirage teams are helping people in Mig-19/Mig-23 team and vice versa.

 

@Atritas My lesson is learned thank you.

Edited April 12, 2021 by myHelljumper

[Atritas]

Love the new FM! Thank you guys.