VAICOM Pro breaks my track files

[streakeagle]

For the longest time, I have had a problem playing back track files, particularly with the F-86 Sabre. Everything works fine except that my aircraft's engine doesn't start. You can see me flipping the correct switches, but the RPMs never come up.

 

Today, I completely uninstalled DCS World Open Beta (my only install) and re-installed it. I found my track file working correctly. So I tried again with VAICOM Pro running and "bang!", I found the cause of the problem:

 

VAICOM Pro can be running and the track file will play back correctly IF I turn on the ground power using the in-game Function Key menu system: i.e.:

backslash for radio menu, F8 for ground crew, F2 for ground power, F1 for ON. The track will show the engine rpm coming up as soon as the starter switch is flipped just as it does when playing live.

 

But when I use my voice to tell the ground crew to turn on the ground power via VAICOM Pro, the replay track fails to show the engine rpm increasing when I flip the starter switch and the track file diverges from that point on because the aircraft is never able to taxi/fly without the engine running.

[streakeagle]

Behavior is similar with the F-5: the track doesn't show the ground air supply being connected and therefore the engine doesn't start.

 

It seems that the track system is not recording commands that are triggered by VAICOM, but I know of another person that has a setup using VAICOM Pro and SRS like me... but he doesn't have this problem. Maybe I need to reinstall VAICOM Pro? 

 

 

[streakeagle]

I have tried everything that I can think of, but still no joy: if I use VAICOM, my track files don't record commands triggered by voice, which means when I fly from a cold start, most of my track files are completely worthless because in the track file, my engine never starts.

[sthompson]

Known issue. Same problem in the MiG-15 for me. I'm surprised to hear that someone else does not have the problem. Are you sure about that?

[Japo32]

same

[MAXsenna]

As stated in a similar thread, this has nothing to do with VAICOM per say. It seems to be a flaw in DCS that the track files do not record inputs made through the use of the export.lua, and we all know that track files are just recordings of inputs. And, well, VAICOM makes inputs through the network/export.lua
Other apps seems to have the same issue. From the top of my head I believe I've heard that DCS-BIOS suffers from this as well.
We can only hope will redo the complete track system anyway....
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[xmudroller]

Same here

[Dangerzone]

Just confirming that this issue hasn't been fixed in the latest 2.9? That it's still a known issue?

[sthompson]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Just confirming that this issue hasn't been fixed in the latest 2.9? That it's still a known issue?

I'm skeptical that it will ever be fixed. Right now tracks record inputs from your controllers, keyboard, mouse, headtracker, and other input devices recognized in the DCS controls menu. VAICOM communicates directly with the underlying code, bypassing that layer altogether, which is why your inputs from VAICOM are not recorded in the track file. I've seen no indication that ED ever plans to fix this. If I need to make a track file I turn off (or don't use) VAICOM.

[MAXsenna]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:21 AM, Dangerzone said:

Just confirming that this issue hasn't been fixed in the latest 2.9? That it's still a known issue?

Like @sthompson writes. It will "never" be fixed, as it is nothing to fix. The tracks ain't broken, it's just not recorded like with all similar programs ie. DCS-BIOS. This is on ED to change.

Cheers!

[GeneralDynamics]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:21 AM, MAXsenna said:

Like @sthompson writes. It will "never" be fixed, as it is nothing to fix. The tracks ain't broken, it's just not recorded like with all similar programs ie. DCS-BIOS. This is on ED to change.

Cheers!

Welp, just doing my part to keep this topic alive. I understand that the solution is likely to be "complicated", however, I sincerely hope that ED will consider officially integrating VAICOM into the sim someday. The reason replays are important to me at least, is that often I'll have company come over to visit and they see the sim setup in my man cave. They WANT to experience it, but they're intimidated by all the buttons, switches, knobs, displays, head tracking gear, etc. The way that I can overcome their fear is to put them in the cockpit and let them simply ride along during a replay where they don't have to actually fly the aircraft, but rather just get to enjoy the experience. I've been unable to do this for supercarrier missions due to the wheel chocks not being removed during replay, and the carrier operations are something I would love for "first timers" to experience. The only way to remove the wheel chocks that I'm aware of is via VAICOM radio communications, and I'm not inclined to add the comms menus back in just for this as I use VAICOM extensively. It works flawlessly and tremendously enhances the immersion aspect of the sim, and I want to personally thank the VAICOM team for the excellent work they do!

Please, please, ED folks, consider officially integrating VAICOM into the sim at some point. However, might you consider an easier workaround for the time being? Like a keyboard command for removing the wheel chocks like we currently have for the "Salute" command? Would that perhaps be possible?

Please accept my apologies in advance if there is already a workaround in place that I'm not aware of.

Thank you!

GD

Edited August 20, 2024 by GeneralDynamics

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, GeneralDynamics said:

However, might you consider an easier workaround for the time being? Like a keyboard command for removing the wheel chocks like we currently have for the "Salute" command? Would that perhaps be possible?

Worth putting this request in suggestions and feature request as a new post. I doubt anyone from ED would see it here given this thread is about VAICOM, and it’s a 3rd party mod that DCS doesn’t support. 

[sthompson]

9 hours ago, GeneralDynamics said:

Welp, just doing my part to keep this topic alive. I understand that the solution is likely to be "complicated", however, I sincerely hope that ED will consider officially integrating VAICOM into the sim someday. The reason replays are important to me at least, is that often I'll have company come over to visit and they see the sim setup in my man cave. They WANT to experience it, but they're intimidated by all the buttons, switches, knobs, displays, head tracking gear, etc. The way that I can overcome their fear is to put them in the cockpit and let them simply ride along during a replay where they don't have to actually fly the aircraft, but rather just get to enjoy the experience. I've been unable to do this for supercarrier missions due to the wheel chocks not being removed during replay, and the carrier operations are something I would love for "first timers" to experience. The only way to remove the wheel chocks that I'm aware of is via VAICOM radio communications, and I'm not inclined to add the comms menus back in just for this as I use VAICOM extensively. It works flawlessly and tremendously enhances the immersion aspect of the sim, and I want to personally thank the VAICOM team for the excellent work they do!

Please, please, ED folks, consider officially integrating VAICOM into the sim at some point. However, might you consider an easier workaround for the time being? Like a keyboard command for removing the wheel chocks like we currently have for the "Salute" command? Would that perhaps be possible?

Please accept my apologies in advance if there is already a workaround in place that I'm not aware of.

Thank you!

GD

 

Unfortunately there are other deal breaker commands that are needed to fly a mission but have no keyboard commands other than through the comms menu. Any module that requires interaction with the ground crew is in this category. In addition to wheel chocks there are also the ground air supply and ground power commands. And others for specific modules. (The update data cartridge command for the JF-17 is an example.)

Of course tracks are unreliable as a general matter in my experience, and I guess I'm less worried about the immersion than your post suggests you are. So this hasn't been a big deal for me. On the other hand, I would love to have the track system fixed, and if so, having an API integrated that permits third party apps to interact with the AI would do the trick. That might even be a better option than having ED take over VAICOM.

[GeneralDynamics]

14 hours ago, sthompson said:

Of course tracks are unreliable as a general matter in my experience, and I guess I'm less worried about the immersion than your post suggests you are. So this hasn't been a big deal for me. On the other hand, I would love to have the track system fixed, and if so, having an API integrated that permits third party apps to interact with the AI would do the trick. That might even be a better option than having ED take over VAICOM.

I admit there was a time when track files were notoriously unreliable, with the aircraft inexplicably veering off course and crashing mid-way through a replay, but have you tried creating a track file with the current version lately? Those issues seem to have been fixed with the latest versions, and I've been able to fly hour long missions with replays performing flawlessly from beginning to end. I've yet to have a replay failure in recent months:-) 

Thank you, sthompson and Dangerzone, for your input. I'll create a post in feature requests and echo your suggestions.

Cheers!

GD

[MAXsenna]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:44 AM, GeneralDynamics said:

Please, please, ED folks, consider officially integrating VAICOM into the sim at some point. However, might you consider an easier workaround for the time being? Like a keyboard command for removing the wheel chocks like we currently have for the "Salute" command? Would that perhaps be possible?

Yes, I'd like all external mods like DCS-BIOS to compatible with the tracks. It's not only VAICOM, but all mods that do not use the radio menu or directly DX buttons or keyboards/mice. I guess it has to do with the way the tracks really are a debug tool and not a replay. 

Are you aware that you can now map a hat/buttons to browse the radio menu? So for those special cases/tracks you need it for, it can be an easy workaround. 

Cheers! 

On 8/21/2024 at 8:27 AM, GeneralDynamics said:

I admit there was a time when track files were notoriously unreliable, with the aircraft inexplicably veering off course and crashing mid-way through a replay, but have you tried creating a track file with the current version lately? Those issues seem to have been fixed with the latest versions, and I've been able to fly hour long missions with replays performing flawlessly from beginning to end. I've yet to have a replay failure in recent months:-) 

Thank you, sthompson and Dangerzone, for your input. I'll create a post in feature requests and echo your suggestions.

Cheers!

GD

Yes, the tracks are better, but not the reason why VAICOM, DCS-BIOS etc. don't work with tracks. They are not broken, it's just that the input is not recorded in the track. 

Cheers! 

[sthompson]

44 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Yes, the tracks are better, but not the reason why VAICOM, DCS-BIOS etc. don't work with tracks. They are not broken, it's just that the input is not recorded in the track.  

It would be unrealistic for DCS to support inputs for third party software, and I'm not sure I would call the VAICOM interface to DCS as an "input." What is needed is for track files to record events that are triggered via calls to a standardized API. DCS could provide an API for radio communications, for example, so that third party apps such as VAICOM would not need to mess around with DCS's internal code and would only need appropriate entries in the export.lua file. And then if tracks recorded calls to the API as events that could be played back then tracks would work again.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, sthompson said:

It would be unrealistic for DCS to support inputs for third party software, and I'm not sure I would call the VAICOM interface to DCS as an "input." What is needed is for track files to record events that are triggered via calls to a standardized API. DCS could provide an API for radio communications, for example, so that third party apps such as VAICOM would not need to mess around with DCS's internal code and would only need appropriate entries in the export.lua file. And then if tracks recorded calls to the API as events that could be played back then tracks would work again.

Absolutely!