Keyboard Command Layout

[Vosxod]

That really depends on the method in which the majority of use the Alt key.

I hit ALT first with my thumb, hold it down, and then I search for the other key with my index finger. I then tap and hold the other key and then release the other key.

This has certainly been the case for me for LOMAC in the months I've been flying - even more now either the FC1.1 auto-pilot modes.

 

The crucial point is - does my method represent the majority of users? If that is the case, it's good to warn people to use that method.

We already train them to use keys in so many different ways.

 

EDIT:

After reviewing my key use, I remember that I have that problem with the Shkval/Laser Designator. Sometimes I go to turn the Laser on but then I with Shift-O but then hit O accidentally which :eek: turns off my Shval and requires me to turn it on, re-acquire and lock-on and then turn the designator again.

 

I think with ALT at the bottom of the keyboard and having to stretch up, the current method is reasonable.

 

But with SHIFT it might be a different case because it's not at the bottom of the keyboard.

You dont get my point. It does not matter Alt or Shift or whatever. I'm talking about releasing key kombination, how to un-press the buttons. And yes majority of ppl PRESS kombination by putting down firts key, holding it and then pressing second...

[ZoomBoy27]

You dont get my point. It does not matter Alt or Shift or whatever. I'm talking about releasing key kombination, how to un-press the buttons. And yes majority of ppl PRESS kombination by putting down firts key, holding it and then pressing second...

Yes, I do get your point and agree with you. If you read after the EDIT:, I said I had that problem except with SHIFT rather than ALT.

I just think I think ALT(the way it is used by most) is safer than SHIFT. Hence my :eek: when a whole system shut down. But both have their problems so it's not just one key.

 

But that does bring up the question about holding down the key continuously is sometimes necessary and how to handle it. KEYPAD-INSERT is used and at the same time, operating flaps and gear. Making it more clear we need to reduce it to its essentials

 

To be more specific: A solution would be that if Shift/ALT/Ctrl is pressed in combination with a KEY_OF_INTEREST, the KEY_OF_INTEREST would be flagged to not be allowed to activate until a number of seconds has elapsed or until the KEY_OF_INTEREST is lifted.

 

e.g ALT-1 is pressed and the user releases ALT but still has his finger on 1. In the initial ALT-1 key-press, 1 is flagged in the keystroke system as a KEY_OF_INTEREST. The user cannot affect any 1 system until he lifts the key. When he lefts the key, a message is sent to the keystroke system telling it that it can be used for other purposes.

 

I would disagree with you that a "majority suffer "accidental" triggering " but if this could be added, it would be an interface improvement.

[Asterix28573]

It's what they call a paradigm shift. A tiny one but...

 

Just to let you know that F4 uses 4 keys

Q, W, E, R, T

 

Q- AWACS

W- Wingman

E- Element

R- Flight

T- Tower

One row of buttons - coolness in itself

 

Hi,

You forgot 'Y - Tanker Menu', so the QWERTY line goes complete ;)

 

Cheers,

Asterix

[SwingKid]

Hi SwingKid, thanks for interest in my thread in russian part of forum...

 

Wow, someone who is interested in keyboard controls, AND writes in both English and Russian?! :) Welcome to our discussion!

 

I also started my interest in this topic because I was not satisfied with the implementation of a few keyboard controls (e.g. Alt-KPDel for missile padlock), and also with the proposed solutions "get a HOTAS" or "re-program the commands yourself".

 

The more that I study the problem, however, the more I realize that it's a very complex simulator, and an efficient layout cannot be accomplished by simply changing one or two commands. In addition to the question of what should happen when Shift or Alt is released - I think we should also take advantage of Caps, Num and Scroll Lock as their natural mode-toggling "Lock" functions imply (Lock On presently uses them as ordinary keys like any other, and ignores whether the lamp is active or dark on the user's keyboard). And there are some functions that are less necessary, and could be moved to on-screen menus, to make space on the keyboard for more often- or urgently-used controls.

 

At this time I am most concerned about the Keypad "view" controls. For example, in the F1 view, the zoom keys KP* and KP/ will change the angular field of view, but not the camera position. In the F2 view, the zoom keys KP* and KP/ chane the camera's position, and Ctrl-KP* and Ctrl-KP/ change the angular field of view. The use of KP0 as a sort of "Shift" key for snap views is also very strange. And the use of "Win" keys in general has given problems to people who don't have such keys on the keyboard, or cannot map them to the HOTAS.

 

I studied these view controls and am now convinced that it will be the most difficult part of the user interface to redesign - the efficient switching between snap views, panning views, stepping views, view saving and adjustment controls, all the different kinds of padlocks, 6-DOF TrackIr compatibility, future front seat/back seat views and everything else threatens to consume the entire user interface with a million commands that have nothing to do with controlling the aircraft. Until this part of the user interface can be re-organized with a smaller "footprint", it will always hang as a dark cloud over all other keyboard controls - important flying controls must scavenge obscure real estate like "RWin+Insert" because there is not other place for them.

 

So I think that all keyboard control solutions should be carefully planned and considered together, at the same time, with consideration of all of them according to prioritization, and not individually. And as Valery suggested, the operation of view controls is a very large and serious part of the consideration. Probably, such a project of user control revision will require such time and work that it should be planned only for a distant future product.

 

I worked some time on a new plan for view controls, I'll try to post it soon for discussion.

 

Thanks for interest!

 

-SK

[Prophet_169th]

One of the problems I have found, there are some keys that use the Rwin key. My keyboard doesnt have a Rwin, but when I try to change it to a Lwin, it doesnt register it.

 

I see it listed on the side, but have yet to be able to map it.

[Ice]

Looks like you've put alot of work and thought into this Swing

 

Has my vote

[Vosxod]

Wow, someone who is interested in keyboard controls, AND writes in both English and Russian?! :) Welcome to our discussion!

 

I also started my interest in this topic because I was not satisfied with the implementation of a few keyboard controls (e.g. Alt-KPDel for missile padlock), and also with the proposed solutions "get a HOTAS" or "re-program the commands yourself".

 

The more that I study the problem, however, the more I realize that it's a very complex simulator, and an efficient layout cannot be accomplished by simply changing one or two commands....

-SK

I agree, all this is complicated.

As for me - I just use hat to look around and four buttons on joy (increase/decrease FOV, center my view and reset FOV). Thats it - no panning padloking and other things... I dont need anything - I just look around. Same as I do in IL2. So I dont need to switch my mind when jumping from La5F to Su27 :). Most of functions in need in LO combat are on my MS FF2 buttons. I use two modifiers - Alt and Win are mapped as Joy buttons so I have total 18 functions available. I struggle to select the ones I need the most... Eventually I end up having 2 batch files to switch folders in LO to be able to switch from Su25T configuration (biggest problem there is linear response setting for joy axis) to Su27 (Mig) configuration :).

So having my setup I use keyboard not that often. But when I use it I have strong desire to smash it against the wall ;). It so pissses me off when it turn on some function I dont want because I press key combination fast... Also I dont buy developers advise - "just remap your keys the way you like". No! Thank you! All LO manualls and everything refers to default keys and I dont want to mess with it - I'm ok with default key layout. I just need LO to work with key combinations in same way as all other games. Is it so difficult to go with industry standart? :(

Btw those pure ppl who has no second Win key - real amuzement :) So they can buy top-notch PC to play LO and cannot afford $10 keyboard? That is terrible... ;)