Question about F117 in LOMAC

[grandkodiak]

How accurate is the radar crossection represented with the F117 in Flaming Cliffs? I'm tryin to make a few missions with them but they seem to go down just as easy to SAMs as anything else... is "stealth" not really modelled in the game?

[GGTharos]

It is definitely modeled, but flying your F-117's into SAMs is not wise. They sneak around BETWEEN the SAMs, and there's still SEAD and dedicated electronic warfare support (N/A LOMAC) needed to help them - especially with SAMs right at the target.

[Vekkinho]

I also had questions on F-117A in terms of RCS modelling, I also noticed that BUK, TOR and S-300 SAM systems engage F-117A with ease!

 

Thing is:

 

A) IRL F-117A pilots choose their flightpaths (Ingress and egress routes) wisely just like GGT said, sneaking outside and below SAM scan range,

 

B) Stealthiness of F-117A in LOMAC and FC is not modelled accurately, RCS of F-117A is pretty small but present so BUK, TOR and S-300 systems have no problem engaging and bringing down the F-117A when it enters NEZ.

 

BTW welcome to forums!

[grandkodiak]

ha thanks! im curious now to put a few up in the air and fool around with them in a 27 see how the compare in radar with say an f16...

[Vekkinho]

You'll get a F-117A radar contact within 3-4 kilometers! This may vary according to the aspect, ground clutter and such but simply by flying below F-117A you'll get a firing solution!

[GGTharos]

I think the stealthiness is modeled ok - I mean, in respect to the RCS. What isn't modeled is the gain those SAMs would have to turn up to detect it, and the associated clutter, plus any potential electronic warfare.

 

In other words, the F-117 is being attacked because it is flying in a 'perfect physics laboratory environment' where all that counts is those pristine, un-perturbed radar range equations ... :)

[golfsierra2]

You'll get a F-117A radar contact within 3-4 kilometers! This may vary according to the aspect, ground clutter and such but simply by flying below F-117A you'll get a firing solution!

 

I think, you find them first with the KOLS/IRST.

[grandkodiak]

interesting side fact i was just reading that the 1 f117 thats ever been lost to enemy fire was picked up becasue it was flying through dense cloud cover, the water was obviously building up on the skin like a dynamic coating which reflected when a smart radar operater (who was guessing the likely incomming path for the plane from previous attacks) picked up the disturbance of the water like a rain signature (on say a doppler weather scan moving at rediculous speeds for a raining cluster) on a lower then normally used freq band. bad circumstances, smart radar op.

 

i gotta read more this stealth stuff is really quite interesting, wonder if any new sim out there will tackle the f22/b2/f117 in the future? i kinda miss janes USAF!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

interesting side fact i was just reading that the 1 f117 thats ever been lost to enemy fire was picked up becasue it was flying through dense cloud cover, the water was obviously building up on the skin like a dynamic coating which reflected when a smart radar operater (who was guessing the likely incomming path for the plane from previous attacks) picked up the disturbance of the water like a rain signature (on say a doppler weather scan moving at rediculous speeds for a raining cluster) on a lower then normally used freq band. bad circumstances, smart radar op.

All this is happening in the environment where the radar operator was able to keep the radar on for several seconds at the time.

 

F-117 is now retired and few years back England canceled its purchasing plans.

 

Stealth has its place in the system, there is no question about that. However, when in the environment where the radar can be kept ON, then, in my view, stealth alone (F-117) is not going to be a serious problem for modern SAM systems. And, that’s what we see in Flaming Cliffs.

[GGTharos]

Actually he didn't guess squat. It was solid intelligence, and there was no weather radar involved. Because the timing was good, the radar only needed to be on for a short period of time, pretty much negating anti-radar counter-fire. The radar was part of the SAM system, nothing special or interesting in that respect - and it was moved into the path the F-117 was known to fly, then turned on when the F-117 was close. At short range, stealth aircraft will show up on radar.

 

As for modern stealth aircraft? Sure, there'll be SAMs that can deal with them as they can deal with 'normal' aircraft today in what, 40-50 years?

 

interesting side fact i was just reading that the 1 f117 thats ever been lost to enemy fire was picked up becasue it was flying through dense cloud cover, the water was obviously building up on the skin like a dynamic coating which reflected when a smart radar operater (who was guessing the likely incomming path for the plane from previous attacks) picked up the disturbance of the water like a rain signature (on say a doppler weather scan moving at rediculous speeds for a raining cluster) on a lower then normally used freq band. bad circumstances, smart radar op.

 

i gotta read more this stealth stuff is really quite interesting, wonder if any new sim out there will tackle the f22/b2/f117 in the future? i kinda miss janes USAF!

[grandkodiak]

i never said it was weather radar i was just sayin that for the sake of example... found the technique an interesting concept. anywho, nevermind.

[59th_LeFty]

In 1.12 mission , I picked up an F-117 HEAD ON at 10 km.

 

I tried an S-300 vs F-117, and the result was a shot down Nighhawk 40km from the SAM...