"Opposition defends Joint Strike Fighter over simulated dogfights"

[Pilotasso]

Just because you saw R-77 dumies on prototypes?

 

Even if it fields radar AA missiles you can bet your behind that the planes modified airframe (for a bomber), specialized platypus AG radar and added weight is going to make the pilots to seriosly consider a retreat rather than dumping AG stores and going in for a fight like an F-15E would.

 

Nor would the F-15E be able to draw red circles arround its base of operation like the Su-34 would. And none of the above could compete with the F-111 for that effect.

 

Beleive it or not wer are still comparing apples to oranges here.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

Neither the F-15E or Su-34 are potent A2A platforms; the F-15E can become one, but only if it loses all of its A2G capability - you need to ditch the FAST packs.

 

The Su-34 doesn't get to do such a thing - it's its TWR lower, and this dictates BVR performance as well as WVR.

 

What you CAN compare is their strike radius with A2G munitions onboard, as well as the number of munitions, and the sensors and weapons used to prosecute their attacks. An F-15 armed with JDAMs is a much more potent strike aircraft than a Su-34 when multiple targets within the same area are involved.

 

On the other hand, if we consider a single target, the Su-34 can probably go farther, and it can also self-escort in terms of SEAD, where an F-15E cannot.

 

This changes somewhat with updated F-15Es and any F-15 variant higher than the E when equipped with an AESA antenna, which allows them to do their own stand-off jamming against SAM threats in the area they are attacking (thus negating to some degree the necessity of an EW escort, and possibly enabling DEAD attacks against SAM threats near the target area).

 

Both of these aircraft have very similar payload weight capability (the Su-34, IIRC, can carry about 800kg more), both are relatively long ranged, but the advantage in terms of the types of weapons used still rests with the F-15E for the most part, so long as we're not talking SEAD.

 

Mind you, I wouldn't want to beon the business end of either of those - the differences are such that these two planes effectively even out, especially against single mission targets.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I thought we are talking F-35 and modern Sukhois here. F-15E?

[GGTharos]

How many posts did it take you to notice? Or did you just notice mine? :D

 

But hey, here's an F-35 cookie:

 

The F-35 doesn't really compare to either the F-15E or the Su-34.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I wonder how would F-35 stand against Su-34 in terms of weapons, radar, AA, speed, durability of flight ...

 

Su-34 can map ground while simultaneously guiding the AA missile.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The F-35 doesn't really compare to either the F-15E or the Su-34.

Exactly. It is inferior to Su-34. BTW, thanks for the tip.

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP ;)

[GGTharos]

The F-35 can simultaneously map ground, attack with JDAMs, attack with AIM-120s, jam threat emitters, and still stay undetected. That pretty much makes your above statement a rather poorly thought out analysis. Are you sure you're not just baiting?

 

About the only thing the Su-34 has on an F-35 is range - in other words, it can probably carry out a longer range mission than an F-35.

 

Edit: Nope, it can't even do that, at least not by much - unless we factor in a lot of air refueling and crew comfort. THEN the Su-34 provides better crew comfort for such situations. I suppose then it probably just plain carries more stores. Maybe ;)

 

I wonder how would F-35 stand against Su-34 in terms of weapons, radar, AA, speed, durability of flight ...

 

Su-34 can map ground while simultaneously guiding the AA missile.

Edited October 1, 2008 by GGTharos

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

About the only thing the Su-34 has on an F-35 is range - in other words, it can probably carry out a longer range mission than an F-35.

All right, this is a good start GG! So F-35 is inferior to Su-34 in range. Now let's look at the radar ...

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP ;)

[GGTharos]

You look at it. ;)

 

All right, this is a good start GG! So F-35 is inferior to Su-34 in range. Now let's look at the radar ...

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP ;)

[hitman]

All right, this is a good start GG! So F-35 is inferior to Su-34 in range. Now let's look at the radar ...

 

Reminder: SAM = F-35 Fodder ;)

Yes...those large gas tanks make it a potent A2A platform.

[mikoyan]

How can you guys compare two airplanes like :

f-35 no ready yet

su-34 classified

 

I even find difficult to compare the su-27 and the f-15 without inside information and facts instead of speculations.

[GGTharos]

The general capabilities those aircraft will bring to the table are already relatively fixed. Certainly, things can change, and classified stuff is classified.

 

But you can still compare armament, engine thrust, weights, listed ranges, and a bunch of other things ;) Why? Because its fun.

 

How can you guys compare two airplanes like :

f-35 no ready yet

su-34 classified

 

I even find difficult to compare the su-27 and the f-15 without inside information and facts instead of speculations.

[mikoyan]

The general capabilities those aircraft will bring to the table are already relatively fixed. Certainly, things can change, and classified stuff is classified.

 

But you can still compare armament, engine thrust, weights, listed ranges, and a bunch of other things ;) Why? Because its fun.

 

YEAH but some people make that look like facts and some of then are seriously biased comparisons

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

How can you guys compare two airplanes like :

f-35 no ready yet

su-34 classified

There is some 30 pages of info about Su-34 in Yefim Gordon's Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker book. Incredible info and pictures, obviously declassified, on this spectacular bird!

 

Also 24 Su-34 are to be delivered by 2010 to equip Russian Air Force first regiment operating the type.

 

But, just as GGTharos said, it is fun to talk about these things. And often we are wrong with what we say or believe.

 

Nevertheless, my friendship with Eagle Dynamics Flanker series game as well as this forum, made me to read a dozen very interesting combat airplane aviation books. So it is sort of education as well. Fun education.

[Pilotasso]

Exactly. It is inferior to Su-34. BTW, thanks for the tip.

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP ;)

 

Inferior? Comparing peanuts to pumkins here. Im sure your joking.

 

Su-34 is a bomber. Neither the Su-34 or F-35 are quite operational yet. I've read reports russia only has 4 Su-34's and none are fully operational yet. The date for the total delivery of 24 is somewhat unrealistic considering the current rate of delivery. As for the F-35, the 34 could never match it in AA combat nor its ability to disapear from radars. It would be a very, very bad idea to send 34's against an asset defended by F-35's.

[Teknetinium]

The F-35 can simultaneously map ground, attack with JDAMs, attack with AIM-120s, jam threat emitters, and still stay undetected. That pretty much makes your above statement a rather poorly thought out analysis. Are you sure you're not just baiting?

 

About the only thing the Su-34 has on an F-35 is range - in other words, it can probably carry out a longer range mission than an F-35.

 

Edit: Nope, it can't even do that, at least not by much - unless we factor in a lot of air refueling and crew comfort. THEN the Su-34 provides better crew comfort for such situations. I suppose then it probably just plain carries more stores. Maybe ;)

 

 

GG/Pilotasso dont be ignorant if F-22 or F-35 want to attempt on same mission as su-34/su-30 all stealth capabilities disappear because of external payloads. and when that happens u can again only speculate, as u do whit missiles performance.

When it comes to avionics and data link between different sources u have no proof that F22 or F-35 dose it better ten Su-34. Su-34 can do everything F-22 and F-35 can do together :) its just that Su-34 doesn't have same stealth design, but again if u want to cary out same missions as Su-34 u can forget about stealth.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

Tek I dont think your reading my posts properly (again). I never meant to compare AG capabilities of both aircraft. F-35 takes less payload for internal carriage. It doesnt need to carry externaly.

[Teknetinium]

Tek I dont think your reading my posts properly (again). I never meant to compare AG capabilities of both aircraft. F-35 takes less payload for internal carriage. It doesnt need to carry externaly.

 

 

Goood!!!! Dont make it sound then like F-22 or F-35 can even come close to Su-34 mission capabilities. If u talk about multi-role as u did then ur best choice would be Su-34 ;) I'm referring to GG to!

Edited October 2, 2008 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

Su-34 is not exactly Multirole. Its a strike aircraft with self defense capability. Youll never see Su-34's tasked for AA duties. ever. Neither it will have a realistic chance to compare with the F-35 in that arena, not by a long shot. The 2 will never overlap tasks either. Dont compare them both.

 

Your comments seems to me overblown wishfull thinking.

[Teknetinium]

:) its ur wishful thinking when u compere F-35/F-22 to su-34 as multirole aircrafts, I would say they are more leaned to air to air, as u are saying now. after me pointing out this nonsense.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Teknetinium

[Pilotasso]

Again, you only reading perhaps like 2 3 keywords on posts that you dont like. I never talked about F-22 but that is more leaned to AA (it has AG capability as well) and F-35 is fully multirole, Su-34 is more Ag oriented. Saying it is superior to the F-35 is like saying your car is better than the Quen Mary cruise ship!

 

And thats when we talk about only 4 fliable planes of questionable operational status.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

And by saying F-35 is fully multirole and that su-34 is more towards Ag is what I see as wrong opinion of urs. because Su-34 can handle more roles the F-35.

I live it here and appear when I see more nonsense.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Teknetinium

[GGTharos]

GG/Pilotasso dont be ignorant if F-22 or F-35 want to attempt on same mission as su-34/su-30 all stealth capabilities disappear because of external payloads. and when that happens u can again only speculate, as u do whit missiles performance.

 

How about 'external carriage is not necessary' ... and when it is, that nice AESA will jam the daylights of anything illuminating one of those aircraft anyway, and will have trouble attacking, even when their stealth is 'off' (and hey, what do you mean by 'off'? Do you mean the RCS becomes so large that they're as detectable as an armed superhornet? not very likely)

 

Further, an F-22 with 8SDBs (plus air defense weapons!!!) can inflict quite a bit of 'kick open the door' damage without unstealthing, while the Su-34 is utterly and completely incapable of achieving the same.

 

When it comes to avionics and data link between different sources u have no proof that F22 or F-35 dose it better ten Su-34. Su-34 can do everything F-22 and F-35 can do together :)

 

BS. F-22's and F-35's have JTIDS terminals, and Russia has nothing of the sort operational right now. Get over it. Avionics are also better, as that is one of the major research expenditures for aircraft design.

 

its just that Su-34 doesn't have same stealth design, but again if u want to cary out same missions as Su-34 u can forget about stealth.

 

They don't need nor want to carry out the same missions; if an F-22 needs to destroy two bunkers, it'll carry two 2000lb JDAMs. The wingman will too - and they'll achieve anything the Su-34 could hope to.

 

About the only thing they cannot do is carry cruise missiles - their standoff range is limited to that of a JDAM (and perhaps in the future, JSOWs, which will completely eliminate the Su-34 as a competitor).

 

I think you have some misconceptions as to what aircraft are tasked to do and how they are tasked to do things - a Su-34 isn't going to carry an entire arsenal with it on some long-ranged mission. It'll carry exactly what it needs to carry that mission out ... an F-22 or F-35 will do the same, and they will be carrying the same effective payload in most cases.

 

If you want more bombs on target, you send more F-35's ;)

 

You want a deep strike? Save for rather rare circumstances, a stealth aircraft, even carrying fewer munitions, will likely do it better.

[GGTharos]

And by saying F-35 is fully multirole and that su-34 is more towards Ag is what I see as wrong opinion of urs. because Su-34 can handle more roles the F-35.

 

Really? Such as what roles? :D I'd like to know.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Su-34 has a rearward facing radar. So watch that R-77 even if you are on Su-34 six.

 

F-35 does not have rear facing radar and is very vulnerable to attack from behind.