MPC bombing mode real procedure

[LastRifleRound]

The manual has to be wrong on this procedure. It instructs the pilot to roll in and place the reticle on the target and hold it there until release. This is a curvilinear approach similar to normal release mode and leads you to pushing the nose down fighting the gyro the whole time.

 

I'm assuming the actual procedure is closer to the A4, wherein you roll in and target an aim-off point, then let the reticle walk up to the target. Provided numbers were hit, reticle should be on target at release altitude.

 

Can someone elaborate a more comprehensive approach to this bombing technique as it works in the sabre? The gunsight doesn't give you a great way to establish aim-off. I'm great with the A4 bombing without the computer, but I struggle in the Sabre.

[MAXsenna]

3 hours ago, LastRifleRound said:

The manual has to be wrong on this procedure. It instructs the pilot to roll in and place the reticle on the target and hold it there until release. This is a curvilinear approach similar to normal release mode and leads you to pushing the nose down fighting the gyro the whole time.

 

I'm assuming the actual procedure is closer to the A4, wherein you roll in and target an aim-off point, then let the reticle walk up to the target. Provided numbers were hit, reticle should be on target at release altitude.

 

Can someone elaborate a more comprehensive approach to this bombing technique as it works in the sabre? The gunsight doesn't give you a great way to establish aim-off. I'm great with the A4 bombing without the computer, but I struggle in the Sabre.

I haven't gotten that far in the manual yet, but if i remember correctly from the training mission, I cage the sight, roll in, when i have kept the sight steady in the target for a couple of seconds, I uncage and keep it on the target, until the computer release.
Cheers!

[LastRifleRound]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

I haven't gotten that far in the manual yet, but if i remember correctly from the training mission, I cage the sight, roll in, when i have kept the sight steady in the target for a couple of seconds, I uncage and keep it on the target, until the computer release.
Cheers!

Computer doesn't release in MPC mode. That's normal mode with Auto release selected.

[Holbeach]

 

[MAXsenna]

Computer doesn't release in MPC mode. That's normal mode with Auto release selected.

Ah, get it.

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[LastRifleRound]

On 5/18/2021 at 11:32 AM, Holbeach said:

 

I watched this before. I like Bunyap's content, but he didn't hit here at all, landed way long, so it's not exactly something I can emulate.  I'm looking into info a little deeper than this that others may have, such as what are the adjustments one should make if diving shallower or steeper or releasing higher or lower, and if there are any structures in the cockpit you can use to aim off. I know you're a big iron bomb guy yourself Holbeach, what's your experience been in the Sabre? Any pointers you can give on MPC bombing in the Sabre?

[Holbeach]

I'm a big fan of chucking Iron Bombs. They're not 100% accurate, so you have to work at it. This keeps it interesting. 

Hitting a small target from a great height is difficult and DCS bombs have poor splash damage and maybe not even the correct trajectory.

 

Bunyaps video is spot on and you can see why he didn't hit the target and he knew where it was going to land. The technique is right, but the dive angle wasn't quite right and the pip wasn't on the centre at the release. He also made a small adjustment for aim off.

Therefore if those parameters are met, then close to the centre is best you can expect. Only practice will achieve this as it's hard to get right.

 

I did all of my Sabre stuff 5 years ago, mostly with the very enjoyable Low Level/Pop Up bombing and Auto bombing.

The steep dives, 60 deg WW2 style, should be the most accurate, but I found it hard to do.

Pretty much all my stuff was done at about 40 deg or less, as it's easier to control the approach. You can pretty much guarantee getting the line right, but over or undershoot is going to be more likely.

I'm going to give it a try, as I can't remember how I did it back then.

(OK, it's coming back).

Regards..

Edited May 27, 2021 by Holbeach

[Holbeach]

Aim Off Point.

You can do this with geometric equations, but it's not required here.

So I guess you mean how do you roll in to achieve the required initial dive angle

 

TBC.

 

..

Edited May 28, 2021 by Holbeach

[LastRifleRound]

I agree! I love the challenge of iron bombs, and I never expect them to be dead on, which is part of the fun!

 

For Aim-off with the Sabre, I mean more of a visual marker of where the approximate FPM would be if the Sabre had one, kind of like the A4's FPM on a wings level dive unloaded of G would be at about +20 mil. In the Mig21 the top of the 'net' is about where it would be. Holding to the aim-off means I can pick a feature that's about at the dive angle I want looking at the ADI, then go eyes up the rest of the dive and just hold there and let the reticle drift up to the target.

 

I'm great with the Mig21 and the A4, but I'm terrible with the Sabre

[MAXsenna]

I agree! I love the challenge of iron bombs, and I never expect them to be dead on, which is part of the fun!
 
For Aim-off with the Sabre, I mean more of a visual marker of where the approximate FPM would be if the Sabre had one, kind of like the A4's FPM on a wings level dive unloaded of G would be at about +20 mil. In the Mig21 the top of the 'net' is about where it would be. Holding to the aim-off means I can pick a feature that's about at the dive angle I want looking at the ADI, then go eyes up the rest of the dive and just hold there and let the reticle drift up to the target.
 
I'm great with the Mig21 and the A4, but I'm terrible with the Sabre

When I roll in and dive with the Sabre, I take a quick glance to the left so see my dive angle. I find it actually a little quicker and easier than using the ADI.

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[Holbeach]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:42 AM, LastRifleRound said:

I agree! I love the challenge of iron bombs, and I never expect them to be dead on, which is part of the fun!

 

For Aim-off with the Sabre, I mean more of a visual marker of where the approximate FPM would be if the Sabre had one, kind of like the A4's FPM on a wings level dive unloaded of G would be at about +20 mil. In the Mig21 the top of the 'net' is about where it would be. Holding to the aim-off means I can pick a feature that's about at the dive angle I want looking at the ADI, then go eyes up the rest of the dive and just hold there and let the reticle drift up to the target.

 

I'm great with the Mig21 and the A4, but I'm terrible with the Sabre

 

Do you mean this sort of thing, where I'm using the wingspan adjuster to get Aim Off. This preserves the Centre Pip and will give an aiming point on the ground ahead of the target.

It can also be used for Low Level Bombing.

 

 

I don't think you need an AOP in MPC.

I'm using the hatch combing to roll in for the initial dive angle, which increases as the target moves backwards and then keep the pip on the target.

 

I didn't like MPC when I first tried it in 2015 and I still don't, but fast Pop Up is great fun.

 

..

[LastRifleRound]

On 6/2/2021 at 2:04 AM, Holbeach said:

 

Do you mean this sort of thing, where I'm using the wingspan adjuster to get Aim Off. This preserves the Centre Pip and will give an aiming point on the ground ahead of the target.

It can also be used for Low Level Bombing.

 

 

I don't think you need an AOP in MPC.

I'm using the hatch combing to roll in for the initial dive angle, which increases as the target moves backwards and then keep the pip on the target.

 

I didn't like MPC when I first tried it in 2015 and I still don't, but fast Pop Up is great fun.

 

..

Bingo. That's great technique. Definitely going to practice this. Much more practical in DCS anyway.