Chieftain Mk3

[stuart666]

Probably the wrong place, but the Chieftain is incorrectly captioned. Its not a Mk3, its a Mk5 judging by the MRS and the NBC pack on the rear. No biggie, iran used both, but it would be good to get it right.

 

OTOH, its a really nice model. Ill look forward to the day when we get detailed armour models for these things.

[Northstar98]

On 5/21/2021 at 5:32 PM, stuart666 said:

Probably the wrong place, but the Chieftain is incorrectly captioned. Its not a Mk3, its a Mk5 judging by the MRS and the NBC pack on the rear. No biggie, iran used both, but it would be good to get it right.

 

OTOH, its a really nice model. Ill look forward to the day when we get detailed armour models for these things.

I make it a Mk. 7 - well if it's supposed to be a Mk. 3 derivative anyway.

• MRS
• TLS
• NBC pack from Mk.5 and onwards
• 750 hp engine (DCS' encyclopaedia quotes 760 hp)
• Firing L23A1 APFSDS according to the .lua

To be honest, it might've been better if they did a Mk. 10 variant instead, which would save the confusion, and is more appropriate for the 80s, they'd only need to model the Stillbrew package, everything else is there.

I did a more detailed post about it here.

If it's a Mk. 5 (which also had 750hp, and an MRS, plus the new wide NBC pack), wouldn't it be a Mk. 5/L, given that it has the TLS (which I'm pretty sure is the small optic to the left of the gunners sight, which isn't present on earlier tanks)?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[stuart666]

I would have to hit the manuals, but I THINK the Mk7 was just an earlier verision (It may have been a Mk2 or Mk3) that had been updated to a Mk5 equivalency. After a while it got silly, so after another mod they all recategorized them as Mk9's, which again, this could largely cover for. Ive yet to check to see if its carrying a L23 or not. I cant remember what version of Mk5 got L23, Mk5/6 possibly?

 

If they did a Mk10, they couldnt give it availablity to Iran. I think the latest the Iranians used was Mk5.

[Northstar98]

On 5/23/2021 at 9:14 AM, stuart666 said:

I would have to hit the manuals, but I THINK the Mk7 was just an earlier verision (It may have been a Mk2 or Mk3) that had been updated to a Mk5 equivalency.

Yeah, the Mk. 7 is a Mk.3 brought up to Mk.5 standard (MRS, NBC pack), which then AFAIK was subsequently upgraded with a better engine, TLS (both of which our tank appears to have), and the ranging gun removed (presumably when TLS was added, the ranging gun was removed).

Mk. 6 is the Mk. 2 brought up to Mk. 5 standards (and then presumably further upgraded as above), and the Mk. 8 is the Mk.3/3 upgraded to Mk.5 standards and upgraded.

Presumably, apart from the tank variant that was updated, the Mk. 7, 8 and 9 are essentially identical. And then I'm guessing, that these were all upgraded with Stillbrew becoming Mk.10s and some of these were fitted with TOGS replacing the searchlight, becoming Mk. 11s.

Quote

After a while it got silly, so after another mod they all recategorized them as Mk9's, which again, this could largely cover for. Ive yet to check to see if its carrying a L23 or not. I cant remember what version of Mk5 got L23, Mk5/6 possibly?

I'm not sure, over here they seem to think it's the Mk. 5/4 that received the necessary stowage arrangements for the APFSDS projectiles. One thing is for certain, is that the Mk. 3 shouldn't have it (it should only have L11 (L11A3/A4/A5) APDS-T and L31A7 HESH-T. There are a few other projectiles (training, smoke, cannister) but none are implemented.

At the moment in the Chieftain_Mk3.lua, it's using L23A1 APFSDS and L31A7 HESH. Though I'm pretty sure DCS doesn't model the difference between HE, HEAT and HESH.

Quote

If they did a Mk10, they couldnt give it availablity to Iran. I think the latest the Iranians used was Mk5.

That's a point, and yeah, Iranians use the Mk. 3/3P and Mk. 5P as well as the Mobarez. I'm not sure these have TLS however (I can't see the little optic to the left of the gunner's sight that our model has, which I think is the TLS laser rangefinder, at least it's not present on older variants as seen here).

Edited March 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[stuart666]

Ive been working on a Mod for Armored Brigade, and im almost certain thats right, it was Chieftain Mk5/4 that was fitted with the racks and had the IFCS upgrades to allow it to fire L23 APFSDS. Everything else earlier than that would have had L15 APDS, including the Iranian ones.

 

Im pretty sure I read the Iranian Mk5's had TLS AND RMG installed, I think they may have envisaged using the RMG as a second COAX in an emergency. Although it really wasnt suited for that role, but hey, the Customer is always right. Mk3 had just RMG I believe.

 

If the devs are ever interested in doing a proper sim of Chieftain, ive got the Mk2/3/5 and Mk11 manuals and associated RMG and IFCS manuals. Considering the amount of people that used it on the Middle East Map,  it would be a good choice. Its all obsolecent now, we have no allies that still use it.

[Northstar98]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:01 PM, stuart666 said:

Im pretty sure I read the Iranian Mk5's had TLS AND RMG installed, I think they may have envisaged using the RMG as a second COAX in an emergency. Although it really wasnt suited for that role, but hey, the Customer is always right. Mk3 had just RMG I believe.

I think you're right, though I can see images of what are apparently Iranian Mk.5/5Ps which seem to have a little optic to the left of the gunners sight, which I think is for the laser rangefinder for TLS, though some don't (though maybe they got the variant wrong, as they don't seem to have MRS, which AFAIK came on the Mk.5).

Quote

If the devs are ever interested in doing a proper sim of Chieftain, ive got the Mk2/3/5 and Mk11 manuals and associated RMG and IFCS manuals. Considering the amount of people that used it on the Middle East Map,  it would be a good choice. Its all obsolecent now, we have no allies that still use it.

Absolutely, plus it would be useful for Cold War gone hot scenarios during the 60s - 80s, though we'd probably need a 80s Germany map though.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[The_Tau]

So when Chieftain will become drivable? 

[Northstar98]

On 5/24/2021 at 2:35 PM, The_Tau said:

So when Chieftain will become drivable? 

No idea, but here is the thread for that.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[stuart666]

21 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

I think you're right, though I can see images of what are apparently Iranian Mk.5/5Ps which seem to have a little optic to the left of the gunners sight, which I think is for the laser rangefinder for TLS, though some don't (though maybe they got the variant wrong, as they don't seem to have MRS, which AFAIK came on the Mk.5).

 

 

Absolutely, plus it would be useful for Cold War gone hot scenarios during the 60s - 80s, though we'd probably need a 80s Germany map though.

 

I cant quite place the bit you mean, but there was a bit on the turret roof, to the 10-11 o clock of the commanders cupola facing forward, which I think was associated with the MRS. The little hole on the right side of the turret, to the right of the gun (again facing forward) was the gunners alternate sight.  The laser of course was mounted in the gunners primary sight, which is presumably why they didnt dismount them to mount the II swap sight later on.

 

If anyone wants to have a look at Chieftain details, please go and look at my manual thread on Tanknet.org. I will try and scan my Mk11 manual at some point.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by stuart666

[Northstar98]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:56 AM, stuart666 said:

I cant quite place the bit you mean, but there was a bit on the turret roof, to the 10-11 o clock of the commanders cupola facing forward, which I think was associated with the MRS. The little hole on the right side of the turret, to the right of the gun (again facing forward) was the gunners alternate sight.  The laser of course was mounted in the gunners primary sight, which is presumably why they didnt dismount them to mount the II swap sight later on.

Ahh I see, you're probably right.

This is what I'm talking about (on a Mk. 10):

I've assumed it was for TLS, but then I couldn't see anything for the MRS.

However, on this tank, which is apparently a Jordanian Khalid variant, I can't see it. However, the cover on the muzzle looks like it's fitted with MRS (apparently these have IFCS too, which I would've thought would've necessitated MRS and TLS).

Quote

If anyone wants to have a look at Chieftain details, please go and look at my manual thread on Tanknet.org. I will try and scan my Mk11 manual at some point.

Will do, is this the thread?

Edited March 28, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[stuart666]

Yeah thats some of the stuff I scanned (as well as many other peoples as well). Its not all online at the moment, but its all obsolete in any case so no problems about classification. All tank nuts welcome on Tanknet.

 

Yeah,thats part of the system for the MRS.

 

Ive actually got a Shir1 and a Khalid manual upstairs, Ill take a look, but im near certain is on those too.

 

Thinking on, Ive a nagging feeling that IFCS was fitted to Khalid when it was sold to Jordan, but that it was  NOT present on Shir1 as built. Which would likely imply that Iranian Chieftain Mk5's didnt have it either. Surprisingly that thought never occurred to me before.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by stuart666