Universal military aircraft homecockpit project

[Viper1970]

So, the basic functions of my CNC are setup and working. Now I have to try out some first simple tasks.  if I am familiar with it, I will try some more complex things and I'm hoping that I'm very soon be able to do some simple circuits with it. That would be a dream and help a lot with my project.

[Rockeyes]

4 hours ago, Viper1970 said:

Looking good!

Yes, I know some things are far away from perfect .

I never thought that so much guys wanna have my HOTAS parts. I really did them for myself and tried to keep things relatively simple. The hats and buttons were really meant to hot glue them at most positions. At first I had a more professional mounting in my mind, but I very soon changed this, because of the mass of parts I wanted to make for my universal pit and the time it had cost to do this also. It's much easier to glue the parts with hot glue and even Virpil or TM do this very often.

If something hot glued is broken it's totally easy to remove it. Just take a little brush, a bottle of spirit and brush the place where the hot glue is full with spirit. After this it's a trifle to remove the broken part. Not nice or professional but an easy DIY solution .

The supports are sometimes really hard to remove and I have also cursed a lot to myself while removing them , but on the other hand I don't really know how to get a good solution on this, as to reconstruct all the parts to more pieces. That's something I really don't want, cause this also makes new connections necesarry and the parts again more complex.

For the buttons, pov's and switches all holes should have the right size. I posted somewhere in the thread which parts I want to use and made the holes for.

 

I wasn't being critical and I should have elaborated. The Dremel was used to tease out some extra space for the wiring. I started using stripped down Ethernet wire then purchased some thinner 30 gauge wire, which has helped. With so many switches in such a complex shape things are going to be tight. Also used the hot glue for the very purpose you state. Great tip about the glue removal, thanks .

As an aeronautical engineer (Rtd) that spent many hours trying to teach myself CAD and experimenting with a variety of software, I can appreciate the time and effort you have placed into this project. To then share your hard work is truly kind. 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Rockeyes

[Viper1970]

No, no, I have not thought that it's meant critical, but there are for sure some things that could be better!

The inside space of the grips is very small, but I only use wires inside and have the "grip-PCB" located inside of my bases. I did it this way, cause first I thought this is much easier to do, as to connect all the wires from the buttons, switches and POV's to a tiny PCB inside the grip and at second that there is no need to make a PCB for every grip, if I want to make additional ones at a later time. Drawback of this method is the numbber of wires which go from the grip to the base. I use very flexible LIYY cables for this.

It's a bit ugly looking, cause the cable get out of the grip at the sockets front and down to the base without any revetment. I did this to be able to easy switch between the different grips and also to prevent using very expensive connector-systems, like professional CPC connectors which maybe could have been mounted inside the sockets of the grips. I use simple Sub-D 25pol and Centronics 36pol connectors, I have still lying arround, for the attachment to my bases.

But at my research of photos from original HOTAS, I have seen that even some grips of real aircraft and helicopters have cables from the grips to the console or floor, that aren't covered and only zipped to the grips extensions.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Viper1970

[assafm25]

Great work!

 

Any chance to get the STL files for the apache?

Edited April 21, 2022 by assafm25

[Rockeyes]

Picture update as requested. Needs a cleanup but will do that after wiring it up to the collective base.

[Viper1970]

Wow, that's looking outstanding amazing!!! Are those really my parts? Did you made the POV's by your own or used some from Thingiverse?

I have seen that there are some matching ones, but a lot for the Apache is special and I still have to make 3D's of them by myself.

At the moment I'm just printing the Kiowa collective head parts. Cyclic is finished. If all Kiowa parts are ready, I will post a pic of them all together.

The collective grip will still be missing, cause many of my collectives use the same dual-twist-throttle-grip, which still must be printed and only the heads are different (eg. Kiowa, Viper, Venom, Huey share the same twist-grip).

I'm still fiddeling around with the little CNC, respectively with the offline controller which makes a bit of trouble. The CNC itself is working fine if connected to the laptop or my smartphone, but if I use the offline controller, it misses some parts of the g-code. I have to find out why this is happening, to be able to use it completely standalone. The smartphone method would be a solution, but during running a job I can not use my smartphone any more. Not a very clever solution . The laptop is too far away and I also don't want to move it arround everytime I use the CNC.

 

P.S: What did you use for the lettering? Inkjet or laser decal foil? I have thought about this.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Viper1970

[Rockeyes]

Thanks and yes that is your design. Didn't use the POV's from Thingiverse. I used 108-THB001P-ND and EG4561-ND. The Hats/knobs I knocked up on CAD and printed. 

I made some sliders to support the boat type hats to stop them rotating. The SCAN switch I made wider and off set the mounting so the handle itself prevents rotation.

The labels were made using a Dymo printer printed with white letting and black background. Then coated with clear varnish for an extra bit of protection. Same trick as we use on DECAL's etc on the A/C.

A small CNC for producing PCBs would very useful. I have no idea how you have managed to run it from a smart phone. I would just use a laptop.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Rockeyes

[Viper1970]

Thank's for the pictures! The idea with the boat switch is very good. Yes, I also looked up at Thingiverse as I made the HOTAS and have also downloaded the two big POV collections, but I had no time to do a closer look which kind of POV's are exactly included, until now. I mainly focused on the POV-mechanics, cause I thought that I can do the missing ones by myself.

If you have an Android smartphone or tablet, you can use a little app named "GRBL controller". It's freeware and works like a charme. You can get it in the Playstore. There is also a paid version which offers a little bit more and costs arround 10$, but all really needed things can also be done with the freeware. There is a github side for it also.

I have made a small smartphone holder out of my old unused drilling rig, which is located directly behind my CNC, but I mainly use it only to setup my CNC with all the right parameters and running some programs to test the setup. Maybe I will look for a used smartphone which will then be exclusive for this purpose, cause I need my phone. It's not so good if a 3 or 4 hours job is running on the machine and while it is running, I can't use the phone.

The little offline controller is very difficult to code commands. You have to use Notepad++ to set the right line feed characters at the end of the code line, after you have created some code with a software at the computer. If they not setup correctly, the controller ignores the commands sometimes. If it runs and you know all the tricks, it can do alot, even a z-probe. But I had to search hours on the web to find all the information about it. The exclusive smartphone would be the easier, nicer and smarter solution.

Unfortunately my laptop is placed too far away from the CNC and i don't want to lay an USB cable across the workshop as a foot trap. In addition, the machine should also be able to run independently. My 3D printers are also all set up that way. That's the reason I wanted to use this little offline controller. I never thought that it is that difficult to use.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Viper1970

[Rockeyes]

I opened up the holes in the collective and made these small switch mounts. This way I could solder them up before fitting. Also as they have a lip and are fitted from the outside there is no chance of them being being dislodged and falling inside. The exception was the joystick switch. I made a cage up for this and welded it with some surplus 3D filament and soldering iron, followed by a healthy dob of hot glue.

 

[Viper1970]

@Rockeyes

Which kind of POV electronics do you use? Those little China-5Way-POV's for smartphones? I have also a lot of them here and they are really good for a 4way POV, but make problems if you also want to use the push-function for a 5way POV. Cause they are meant for very small caps, the leverage is getting to big if you use aircraft-POV-caps. This results in always accidentally activating the push , while you only want to go in a direction. If no push is attached and the hat is only used as a 4way, this isn't a problem.

 

The big Kiowa parts are also ready now. All smaller HOTAS parts, like the missing triggers, POV etc. will be printed at a later time. First the parts which should be spray painted are important. The parts on the picture are only loosely put together without screws or anything else and also not reworked or sanded yet. They are just like they came out of my printer and only the supports are removed.

My Kiowa cyclic has a bit more big holes, cause I will use more POV's (some will be 5Way) like the original has and also some extra switches, to be able to use the pilot and the co-pilot functions with the same grip. Where the pilot has a button and the co pilot a POV, I will mount a 5way POV to simulate the pilots button with the push function and the co-pilots POV with the direction functions or vice versa. The Cyclic has also a socket instead the type of mounting the original grip has, cause it should be interchangeable with my cyclic extension system. I don't want to make another special extension for such kind of grips eg. the Kiowa and some other helos do use.

The next part, the collective for the Blackhawk, is just at the beginning of it's print.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Viper1970

[Rockeyes]

Links to the switches I used.

 

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/JS5208/EG4561-ND/1739634

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/c-k/THB001P/11687191

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yosawo-200-Pieces-Tactile-Momentary-Assortment/dp/B08CT6TKRJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2M4ZNW1NUURCP&keywords=Yosawo+200-Pieces+6+x+6mm+4-Pin+Tactile+Push+Button+Switch+Micro+Momentary+Tact+Switch+Assortment+Kit+KG6&qid=1650970460&sprefix=yosawo+200-pieces+6+x+6mm+4-pin+tactile+push+button+switch+micro+momentary+tact+switch+assortment+kit+kg6+%2Caps%2C39&sr=8-1

 

Those grips look sweet. I don't envy you wiring that lot up. I wore myself out just doing the one collective, however I am toying with the idea of making the TEDAC next if I can find some parts to print.

[Viper1970]

Thank's for the links! They are very helpful.

[Hempstead]

Yep. That JS5208 is the one I am using as well for F16/A10 thumb CMS switch where my new all optical 8-way won’t fit. It has one attribute that is much better than every other 8-way switch on the market I know of — the stem is reasonably long enough to get some thumb cap to attach to it. All others are stupidly short, like 1mm long nubs. So short that even superglue has trouble sticking to it for long term, as stupid as the Thrustmaster nub.

 

Funny enough though. My inability to find an 8-way that does not just have a stupid nub, over the years, was one of the reasons that drove me to start thinking about designing my own. Then it progressed to, if I were going to bother with designing my own, I am gonna design one that has no electrical bounce, and solve that problem the soft debouncer in Hempstick couldn’t solve, once and for all.

And the optical 8-way was started because I couldn’t resolve the pushbutton problem for my Hall Mini Stick design in my bronze cast F16 TQS. So I thought, If I could solve the pushbutton problem for the 8-way, I could back port it to the Mini Hall Stick.

A chain of events all sparked by those stupid nubs! I blame that guy who designed that little red stick on IBM Stinkpad keyboard!

[Viper1970]

19 hours ago, Hempstead said:

Yep. That JS5208 is the one I am using as well for F16/A10 thumb CMS switch where my new all optical 8-way won’t fit. It has one attribute that is much better than every other 8-way switch on the market I know of — the stem is reasonably long enough to get some thumb cap to attach to it. All others are stupidly short, like 1mm long nubs. So short that even superglue has trouble sticking to it for long term, as stupid as the Thrustmaster nub.

 

Funny enough though. My inability to find an 8-way that does not just have a stupid nub, over the years, was one of the reasons that drove me to start thinking about designing my own. Then it progressed to, if I were going to bother with designing my own, I am gonna design one that has no electrical bounce, and solve that problem the soft debouncer in Hempstick couldn’t solve, once and for all.

And the optical 8-way was started because I couldn’t resolve the pushbutton problem for my Hall Mini Stick design in my bronze cast F16 TQS. So I thought, If I could solve the pushbutton problem for the 8-way, I could back port it to the Mini Hall Stick.

A chain of events all sparked by those stupid nubs! I blame that guy who designed that little red stick on IBM Stinkpad keyboard!

 

Thrustmaster used those little red sticks a long time at their TQS throttle. They called it "eraser head" and it was a nightmare, but still an improvement compared to the mini trackball the very first versions had.

Then they changed the slew to a thumbstick in the Cougar, which was a lot better and at the Warthog they did the "eraser head" thing again and even much more worse. Never understood why they used this kind of input again, although it never worked properly even then on the TQS.

[Viper1970]

There is a nice guy here in the forum who makes shift register boards which are compatible with Thrustmaster and I think also Virpil (would be logical ).

Here is a link to his thread (scroll down until the shift registers are mentioned):

 

The connection system itself is also no problem, just use Gardena nuts or M36x2 hydraulic coupling nuts (I used the last ones for my connections of my DIY-extensions to the Cougar and the Warthog bases - the connection between the grips and the extensions is my own system).

Edited April 28, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

The Blackhawk collective is still printing . The left shell took arround 20 hours and the right is at 87% after 27 hours and 3 minutes of print time! I use a layer height of 0.12mm, an cubic infill at 60% at a printspeed of 55mm/s, but have set it to 125% speed at the printer to get them finished a bit "faster" . The nozzle is a 0.5er.

The cover is also still missing. Those are really the biggest single parts I've done so far, even bigger as a single grip of the Apache collective. The Blackhawk collective is also a real monster .

Edited April 28, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

Just did a loose test on my FANATEC handbrake lever in the pit-rig with the left and right grip shells of the Blackhawk (print of the right half was finished after 30 hours and 17 minutes ). The recess for the axle fits perfectly.

The feeling with the intergrated damper and a real mounted grip must be sooo coool!  I WANT TO FLY!!!!

But there is still a lot to do before this will happen. 

If the cover of this collective is also ready printed, I will post pics again.

[Viper1970]

UH-60L/M Blackhawk HOCAS ready for reworks and paint job!

The big parts of the collective are printed and for the cyclic I will use an old modded TM X-Fighter, I made back those days I did not have a 3D printer. Both parts have to be reworked and sanded before painting, but the raw work is already done. The remaining cable from the old X-Fighter will be removed and one of the sockets of my new connection will be system attached.

P.S: The UH-60 collective has also a trigger like the L/M versions have, but this is somewhat difficult to see in the pictures.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

Just printing the AV-8B throttle grip shells. First one is already done and the second is at 64% now.

Meanwhile I'm fighting with my CNC.

The included offline controller is completely useless and cannot execute more complex G-code. Most of the time it does nothing at all. Code that runs fine with Candle or the Android GRBL controller is usually not executed by the offline module.

So I need another offline control module than this cheap original one on the CNC. Since I do not want to leave my smartphone constantly on the mill, I am now building a new holder for a cheap china tablet, which was originally intended for my cockpit as a CDU/FMC input device with appropriate Android interface software.

Unfortunately, this software is no longer compatible with the now completely outdated Android 4.4 on the tablet and for the cockpit I probably have to get a new cheap tablet for this purpose.

But this little thing works perfectly together with the CNC using the Android GRBL Controller after I made it OTG capable by rooting Android and changing the USB settings in the OS using a tool. The advantage of the tablet is that I can leave it permanently attached to the machine and it can also be permanently charged by a DC power supply which is using an independent input plug from USB and can even charge the tablet while the OTG connection is in use.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

The AV-8B Harrier II throttle grip. Once again only supports removed and loosely placed together, just like it came out of the printer.

Next will be the AH-1Z/UH-1Y cyclic and collective head.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

Just ordered 20 pieces of doublesided 150x100mm copper PCB's. Now the PCB production can also start, provided I get along with it as well as with 3D printing.

I will try to use KiCAD for this and test it with some other combinations of freeware to get my projects done on the CNC. It's probably going to be just as strange a mix as I did with my 3D design. But what the heck, the end result has to fit.

[No1sonuk]

4 hours ago, Viper1970 said:

Just ordered 20 pieces of doublesided 150x100mm copper PCB's. Now the PCB production can also start, provided I get along with it as well as with 3D printing.

I will try to use KiCAD for this and test it with some other combinations of freeware to get my projects done on the CNC. It's probably going to be just as strange a mix as I did with my 3D design. But what the heck, the end result has to fit.

I use KiCAD for the schematic and PCB layout design. FlatCAM for the G-code conversion. Then G-Code Ripper to do an auto-levelling scan of the copper clad board.  Mach3 on a 3040 does the machining.
I design the board outline in Fusion360 and export a DXF for the PCB edge shape in KiCAD.

One really nice part of KiCAD is that if you model your "obscure" components, you can export a 3D model of your board back to F360 to see if it will fit!
Example attached.  I modelled the illuminated switches and the rotary, then added them to a custom KiCAD library.

[Viper1970]

Hi,

thank you very much, this is very helpful for me.

I had no plan yet what exactly I want to use besides KiCAD. Your approach sounds very good. I think this will also be a start for me. And I like the idea of being able to see all in 3D before doing any further, very much. That's a real good way!

Edited May 1, 2022 by Viper1970

[Viper1970]

Just flattening the spoil board of my CNC. The job is at arround 33% now and all looks good. The face of the spoil board becomes 100% flat, but it takes ages with a 3mm cutter.

I hope my smartphones battery lasts this long to finish the job. At the moment I'm printing the mount for the tablet and when this is done, there is no more fear of a job that couldn't be finished cause of the battery. The tablet will always be charged during the milling work.

The spindle is really running balanced, nevertheless the little thing makes a hell of a noise. Milling is nothing you can do during the night.

Maybe with just a small cutter or an engraver, I will use for the PCB's the noise is a little more tolerable.

[Rockeyes]

Please post a video. It would be great to see and hear it in action.