Gulf War era Apache question

[Gambit21]

Aside from the FCR/dome and data link...

 

What are the primary differences between a Gulf War Apache and what we're about to get.

I'm trying to get a handle on if I can create a campaign simulating and earlier model with the DCS version by simply omitting certain things, (emissions by other aircraft thereby no data-link) leaving off the FCR, only allowing certain loadouts etc.

 

Of if the differences are such that I can't plausibly pull this off.

Any opinions/help appreciated. 

[1stBEAST]

the awnser is a long one the differences are already huge in the exterior model.

systems wise the ah-64d even without radar is by far more efficient than an early A-Model Apache.

it start with the cockpit layout and all the system the AH-64D has that the AH-64A hasnt.(M-TADS, TEDAC, CMWS, ASIP etc)

 

why not do a campaign that simulates a AH-64D ?

 

[Gambit21]

22 minutes ago, 1stBEAST said:

 

why not do a campaign that simulates a AH-64D ?

 

 

I will it seems - thank you.

I’m trying to ‘Homogonize” 3 different platforms into a theater of operations, and I was trying to set it in the early 90’s. I’ll either move the whole thing up, or just move the Apache campaign forward.

[kseremak]

10 hours ago, 1stBEAST said:

why not do a campaign that simulates a AH-64D ?

 

Maybe because AH-64A was the one which destroyed hundreds of enemy tanks and even more other armored vehilces in real all out war during Desert Storm Gulf War and proved to be extremally effective in it's designed role during that time.

 

In comparison AH-64D in second Iraq war performed quite average, destroying only a handful of tanks, suffering considerable losses in the process. Even though Iraqi military in 2000 was only a demoralised, broken pale shadow of 1991 Army.

After the Gulf War Apache simply didn't have many opportunities to be used in it's designed role. AH-64Ds typically flew in Afghanistan and Iraq without the Longbow Radar in the absence of armored threats.

[NeedzWD40]

Off the top of my head:

 

- Old INS, no GPS capability. Limited to a handful of waypoints on the old INS.

- No AN/AVR-2 laser detecting set.

- No CMWS.

- No MFDs in cockpits.

- No flares, single chaff bucket only.

- Standard exhausts instead of ASPI exhausts.

- Lower resolution TADS and PNVS instead of M-TADS and M-PNVS.

- HELLFIRE types A-F instead of K and later. A and C were the majority and couldn't defeat reactive armor, F could but was larger and bulkier, having a shorter range. Along with this, M272 analog rails instead of the later M299 digital.

- Position and anti-collision lights on wingtips instead of engine nacelles.

- No IAFS/Robby tank.

- Single ADS on rotor mast instead of two on engine nacelles.

 

If the AGM-114A-F models are available, that'd probably be the primary limitation you'd want to slip in. Limiting the other parts are a bit more difficult outside of agreeing not to use the capabilities, ie turning CMWS off.

[Gambit21]

I appreciate that.

 

Doing this (simulating an earlier variant) is relatively easy to accomplish with the Viper and Hornet. (early 90’s) It seems that pulling the Apache into this scheme is more like using a Viper, and telling the player to pretend it’s an F-5. 

 

To stick with my vision I think the Apache version of this campaign will just have to move into the early 2000’s.

 

 

[NeedzWD40]

Bear in mind that a lot of the planned features pin it damn near at the end of the Block II before it was turned into the Block III/E version. Backdating to the early 2000s isn't quite as much a stretch, but there's still a lot of capability that wasn't realized until nearly a decade later. Personally, I'd just restrict the weapons for ODS and leave it at that; it'll be good enough for the theme of the campaign.

[Gambit21]

I see.

well if it’s not part of the Viper/Hornet/F-15E early 90’s timeframe (forgot the Mud Hen earlier) and I’m moving it forward, then at that point I might as well call it 2002 - 2007 somewhere in there.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Gambit21

[AlphaOneSix]

2 hours ago, NeedzWD40 said:

Off the top of my head:

 

- Old INS, no GPS capability. Limited to a handful of waypoints on the old INS.

 

 

 

- HELLFIRE types A-F instead of K and later. A and C were the majority and couldn't defeat reactive armor, F could but was larger and bulkier, having a shorter range.

 

 

Apaches that deployed to Desert Shield/Storm predominantly had GPS. It wasn't embedded like the EGI is nowadays, it was a standalone add-on, but it was there.

 

Also, I'm don't know that the Apaches had any Hellfires other than A and C models, although I suppose I could have bad data. My unit, for example, carried only AGM-114C until the cease fire, then switched out to all AGM-114A to get them out of the inventory.

[Gambit21]

If any real life Apache guy is interested in being a SME for me, please end me a PM.

I have Jay Stout for the Hornet, and T-Day and an older A-model guy/friend of mine for the Viper, I don't have an Apache guy yet.

 

This campaign is A. a ways out.... just doing ground-work right now on nights that I need a break from the Viper build and testing.

B. will feature a lot of armed recon, border patrol, some maritime patrol, CAS, supply interdiction/hitting convoys and other things I'm sure

that haven't been thought of yet. This isn't an "all out" land battle/war scenario, but we'll work on some armored convoys etc.

Early days still. I'll need help with proper comms etc.

 

If interested I can tell you more about what I've done previously via PM or email - this isn't my first rodeo.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gambit21