Good frame times Bad fps

[Digitalvole]

I noticed last night that despite having decent frame times for both gpu & cpu my FPS was dipping below 45,
I was hoping some one could shine some light on this for me.

 

For reference this was on an empty map (PG) in the middle of nowhere (no buildings in sight) and I was in the spitfire. I have motion reprojection forced on. I was paying close attention to Fpsvr and my GPU frame time was between 9.8 an 11 but mostly 10.something, and cpu was between 3 & 4. But my FPS kept dipping down to 42.

 

I don’t think this is DCS specific either as I also had a go on the other sim that’s just ww2 and I saw similar behaviour except frame times were a bit higher but the FPS drop was more extreme (something like 15ms GPU frame time and dropping to 30fps).

 

Is this a sign of thermal throttling perhaps? I’ve no clue but it sure is a pain in the bum. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Lurker]

22 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

I noticed last night that despite having decent frame times for both gpu & cpu my FPS was dipping below 45,
I was hoping some one could shine some light on this for me.

 

For reference this was on an empty map (PG) in the middle of nowhere (no buildings in sight) and I was in the spitfire. I have motion reprojection forced on. I was paying close attention to Fpsvr and my GPU frame time was between 9.8 an 11 but mostly 10.something, and cpu was between 3 & 4. But my FPS kept dipping down to 42.

 

I don’t think this is DCS specific either as I also had a go on the other sim that’s just ww2 and I saw similar behaviour except frame times were a bit higher but the FPS drop was more extreme (something like 15ms GPU frame time and dropping to 30fps).

 

Is this a sign of thermal throttling perhaps? I’ve no clue but it sure is a pain in the bum. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

Can you please post your system specs? VR headset, CPU, GPU, OS etc. BTW those frame times are very impressive, so those FPS dips sound very unusual. Maybe something was running in the background? Also people sometimes have issues when forcing motion reprojection. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Lurker

[Digitalvole]

Sure:

G2

5900x

3090

32gb ram

win 10

 

90% SS

VR shader mod (ic pass)

FSR mod

medium shadows mod

Sharper eye mod

 

I’d just plonked the Spit in the middle of nowhere on PG, I don’t get those frame times if there’s stuff going on besides me tooling about on my jack jones

 

I have MR forced on as I was finding it doing funny things like frame rate fluctuations when I had it just enabled, but I’ll give that a go. 
 

According to fpsvr my GPU temp was 63 and cpu was similar, though I’ve heard that vram temps can be much higher and they aren’t monitored, is that correct?

 

There was one odd thing with Windows last night, when I tried to open the choose program page in Nvidia Control Panel it would close  NCP after a couple of seconds and every time I tried to open it it did the same till I could click the other (general?) tab. Thought that was a bit odd but perhaps unrelated.

[Lurker]

I would definitely try turning off forced motion reprojection first, just enable it for now. (AFAIK Enable makes is sort of an Auto mode) and then check if you have the same low dips. From what you've written it doesn't sound like any kind of thermal throttling, that would cause these dips to become more permanent and prominent. How frequent are they though? 

[Digitalvole]

It happens when maneuvering, in DCS it was quite tight turns in the other sim it was a gentle turn. The screen will judder. Again, there is nothing on the ground anywhere to be seen, not even a tree, that’s why it caught my attention. 
 

Background processes could be happening I suppose but I thought that would show in the frame times, also I’ve only got DCS and the other 2 popular sims installed, oh and steam. I don’t even surf the net on that machine. (That term seems a bit dated, I must be getting old)
 

Thanks for taking the time Lurker

[Lurker]

That sounds a-lot like some kind of version of micro-stutters, and those are hugely difficult to nail down. If you haven't done so already disable Hot Plug devices as well. (You have a button under the key commands) 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Lurker

[Digitalvole]

Oh pants.

 

Ive got hot plug disabled in the menu though maybe an update turned it off. Then again it seems to be happening in 2 sims. Or at least appears to be. I turned the other one off because I couldn’t understand why my frame times seemed ok but the FPS was awful, and they say VR is smoother in that one. Not in my experience.

Ho hum, I may get a chance to play again tomorrow, hopefully it was a one off, stranger things have happened.
 

Thanks again for the help

Edited September 24, 2021 by Digitalvole

[ShaunX]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:54 AM, Digitalvole said:

Sure:

G2

5900x

3090

32gb ram

win 10

 

90% SS

VR shader mod (ic pass)

FSR mod

medium shadows mod

Sharper eye mod

 

I’d just plonked the Spit in the middle of nowhere on PG, I don’t get those frame times if there’s stuff going on besides me tooling about on my jack jones

 

I have MR forced on as I was finding it doing funny things like frame rate fluctuations when I had it just enabled, but I’ll give that a go. 
 

According to fpsvr my GPU temp was 63 and cpu was similar, though I’ve heard that vram temps can be much higher and they aren’t monitored, is that correct?

 

There was one odd thing with Windows last night, when I tried to open the choose program page in Nvidia Control Panel it would close  NCP after a couple of seconds and every time I tried to open it it did the same till I could click the other (general?) tab. Thought that was a bit odd but perhaps unrelated.

 

You have pretty much identical hardware to me (see my sig) and I fly with pretty similar mods, FSR 1.1, Sharper Eye and VR Shader Mod (clear water), though regarding shadows, in DCS I have shadows low and terrain object shadows flat, and then use "Mustangs Flat Shadow removal mod" to only retain cockpit shadows and "Shadows Reduced Framerate Impact" mods. I have Motion Smoothing forced on and hold 45FPS in all but the most demanding situations with high graphics settings. I would certainly never see a dip below 45FPS or experience stuttters on an empty PG map.

 

Have you been through Speed-of-heat's 3090/G2 guide and applied all recommended hygiene changes ?

 

I recently found that following a DCS OB update where I didn't empty fxo and metashaders2 folders before reapplying kegetys clear water that I noticably gained frametimes (even though it has been documented that you shouldn't need to do that). Maybe try removing all mods (I assume you're using OvGME?), run a full repair, clear fxo and Metashaders2, reapply mods and then run DCS to rebuild all the shaders.

 

I would also suggest dropping SS to 80%, which is what I think most of us G2 users use. I can't tell a visual difference between 90 and 80%

 

[Digitalvole]

On 9/26/2021 at 12:05 PM, ShaunX said:

 

Have you been through Speed-of-heat's 3090/G2 guide and applied all recommended hygiene changes ?

 

 

Thanks for the reply, yes I have followed the guide, though there was one thing in the hygiene steps I couldn’t get to work (through my own stupidity) but I can’t remember which one it was, the word ticks springs to mind but my brain is not always to be relied upon.

 

On 9/26/2021 at 12:05 PM, ShaunX said:

 

I recently found that following a DCS OB update where I didn't empty fxo and metashaders2 folders before reapplying kegetys clear water that I noticably gained frametimes (even though it has been documented that you shouldn't need to do that). Maybe try removing all mods (I assume you're using OvGME?), run a full repair, clear fxo and Metashaders2, reapply mods and then run DCS to rebuild all the shaders.

 

 

Aha! I hadn’t thought of that! The whole metashaders/fxo thing had kinda fallen off my radar.  And yeah OvGME is what I use. I’d done a quick repair due to time constraints but I’ll do a full one as soon as I get a chance. Thanks man

 

On 9/26/2021 at 12:05 PM, ShaunX said:

 

I would also suggest dropping SS to 80%, which is what I think most of us G2 users use. I can't tell a visual difference between 90 and 80%

 

 

Yeah, I was just tinkering around trying to get the best visuals with different combos of SS and mods. Usually would be 80%. Though is it just me or does the VR shader mod now create a kind of screen door effect? I was using 70% the other day because though I really like the improved frame times of FSR but I really don’t like what it does to the visuals, (and I’m pretty sure I’ve got the sharpening turned off) and though frame times were good the “screen door” was very noticeable with the sharper eye mod running. 

 

Ive given up trying to get 90fps at all with the G2 even going down to 60% SS because I really really don’t like steam vr motion reprojection. With my old Rift S and ASW I’d see the effects of asw on the buttons of mfds, wingtips and objects flying past but with the G2 and bloody steam vr () I get it all over the HUD which is very distracting and impossible to ignore, it’s like the hud is made out of jelly all of sudden. I look forward to the day I don’t have to use it anymore, come to think of it, other than the great visual quality (which I can’t go back from now) I’m looking forward to having something other than a G2. It’s been a bit of a ball ache compared to my 2 previous Rifts.
 

Possibly Quest 2 Pro next year, I’d even be willing to make a Facebook account I think. It looks like it’ll have lower res than the G2 by a little bit (but who cares as we can’t run the G2 at 100% anyway) and hopeful much bigger sweet spot than the G2 and native support so no more steam vr (yay). Sounds like a winner to me, except the bit where you have to sell your soul to the devil in order to use it.

 

Thanks again

Edited September 27, 2021 by Digitalvole

[ShaunX]

4 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

though there was one thing in the hygiene steps I couldn’t get to work (through my own stupidity) but I can’t remember which one it was, the word ticks springs to mind but my brain is not always to be relied upon.

 

I think "ticks" was just a reference to other apps/processes which you might be running and which might cause some framerate hits or stutters.

 

4 minutes ago, Digitalvole said:

I get it all over the HUD which is very distracting and impossible to ignore, it’s like the hud is made out of jelly all of sudden

 

I don't get this at all on the hud with motion reprojection fixed 45fps and fsr & Sharper Eye. That doesn't sound right. Are you possitive you have sharpen = 0.0 in FSR ? Are you on FSR 1.1 ?

 

I actually only switch FSR on if I need it. If I'm practicing or just sight seeing it stays off.

 

Yeah, forget 90FPS especially since the new clouds and if you want msaa x2. I'm always locked at 45fps. Without the lock I get too much ghosting looking sideways.

 

[Digitalvole]

15 minutes ago, ShaunX said:

 

I don't get this at all on the hud with motion reprojection fixed 45fps and fsr & Sharper Eye. That doesn't sound right. Are you possitive you have sharpen = 0.0 in FSR ? Are you on FSR 1.1 ?

 

I actually only switch FSR on if I need it. If I'm practicing or just sight seeing it stays off.

 

Yeah, forget 90FPS especially since the new clouds and if you want msaa x2. I'm always locked at 45fps. Without the lock I get too much ghosting looking sideways.

 

Yeah pretty sure, checked it the other day and it was 0 and it’s version 1.1. Part of my problem is time to tinker then put into practice. It’s one or the other in any given session at the moment. 
 

What I’m finding odd/annoying about motion reprojection is how and when it kicks in. I’ve described the how above and as for the when it doesn’t seem to make sense. For example, taxiing for take off on a Liberation mission over Syria. 6 AI planes all taxing 2 taking off me taxing too and frame times for both CPU and GPU are in the mid to high teens but everything looks rock solid. Take off, everything’s still looking good. Start climbing and frametimes are going down then all of a sudden the HUD goes to jelly for a bit. It just seems backwards. Oh well, I’ll hopefully get to continue my Liberation campaign tonight and, fingers crossed, get a better idea of what’s going on. 

 

And yeah, too right. Those clouds are great but ouch they cost some performance and I have them on standard (probably why I don’t like FSR cause it makes the look awful to my eyes and setting them to ultra pretty much eats up any gains gained by FSR). And I just can’t play without 2x AA, the shimmer makes my eyes hurt.

 

 

[Lurker]

Still sounds like you have an issue somewhere, unless you are running some settings way too high your system should be running pretty well. Could you possibly post your in-game graphics options?

[ShaunX]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:27 PM, Digitalvole said:

Start climbing and frametimes are going down then all of a sudden the HUD goes to jelly for a bit.

 

Just a thought. Do you have motion smoothing set to "forced" or just "on" ?

 

If it's just "on" then if frametimes go down enough as you gain altitude it'll try to flip from 45fps to 90fps and I guess that might cause your jelly hud somehow. Particularly if it then constantly flips between 45 and 90.

[Digitalvole]

So I had a flight last night (F18, Liberation campaign, Syria, culling most definitely ON as I don’t know how it’s playable without it now, even in 2D.) And I may have found the culprit of the “jelly hud” I was having the other night. Turns out team red had spent much more on air units than I had and there were 36 aircraft on the ramp at there nearest airbase! Whoops. My fix for that problem is going to be liberal use of Cbu 105s and catch them all on the ramp. Muhahaha. 
 

Still no idea why I was seeing FPS dip bellow 45 in the Spitfire on an empty PG map with those frame times. Maybe it’s the Spitfire? 
 

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Still sounds like you have an issue somewhere, unless you are running some settings way too high your system should be running pretty well. Could you possibly post your in-game graphics options?

sure thing, though can’t get a screen shot as I’m not at my computer right now so I’ll have to go by memory, uh oh.

 

CP textures: High

Ground Textures: High (tried low but didn’t see much difference)

Civ Traffic: Off

Water: Medium

View Distance: High

Cockpit Displays: 1024? Can’t remember the exact value

MSAA: x2

Clouds: Standard

Everything else Off.

 

Grass and found clutter: 0

Tree distance: 80%

Virtual memory: slider about halfway across

building detail: 80 or 90 can’t quite remember

tree detail: 60

 

Global Illumination: Off

Ground shadows: Off

AF: x16

 

Think that it.

 

1 hour ago, ShaunX said:

 

Just a thought. Do you have motion smoothing set to "forced" or just "on" ?

 

If it's just "on" then if frametimes go down enough as you gain altitude it'll try to flip from 45fps to 90fps and I guess that might cause your jelly hud somehow. Particularly if it then constantly flips between 45 and 90.

Im pretty sure I have set to always on as I was having strange behaviour with it set to “enabled”. FPS was jumping from 45 up to 53 and causing judders, which I think is a bit silly. Surely it should just stick to 45 if it can’t get 90? Bloody Steam VR  

 

Right now my plan is to fly the Liberation campaign I’m doing in the f18 and 16 and see how things pan out, as we’ve said striving for 90fps seems like a fool’s errand especially with Liberation. Even if you can get your GPU frame times sub 10ms the cpu is going nuts so no 90fps for you, thank you very much.
 

Also I’m tired of fiddling and tinkering. As long as the overall experience of flying missions is ok then I must learn not to let anomalies ruin my fun, as long as they stay anomalies that is. I’ll have to wait and see.

 

Thanks again chaps for taking the time, much appreciated!